Syriza
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By citing the authority of Salmond's credentials as a chartered accountant, you might as well go all the way and add that he was a bankers advisor on the oil industry, hence the sympathetic attitude the SNP have frequently shown to the oil corporations and the touching of the forelock to the Scottish banking industry Or have you so easily forgotten his statement that “We are pledging a light-touch regulation suitable to a Scottish financial sector with its outstanding reputation for probity" Or his endorsement of RBS ill-fated takeovers. Or approval of HSBC principles of banking, "the preferred financial institution of drug cartels and money launderers” as US Crime investigators described it. Or SNP promising the oil industry and Scottish business in general tax cuts. A selective SNP memory, i believe. Syriza and Spain's Podemos promise much the same as the SNP…and lets be blunt neither can escape from the influence of European capitalism via the EU, much less the effects of global economic events such as the fall in oil prices…which makes all the SNP promises now worthless as $50 a barrel is in no way $110 that there post-independence budget was based upon. 1st Warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
Alan -Painted on a wall in the Bridgegate (Paddy,s Market Glasgow ) A country without a heritage is l;ike a tree without roots. THe US pressured SAudi Arabia to keep production up so that Russia and other BRIC countries would suffer .Its artificially induced just to try and bring down Russia. I cant figure out why you believe the UK/US government when they lie continually . I have spent 3 years being attacked by the GCHQ taken out 7 times even left a cheeky note once you see Alan they dont like the TRUTH being told and I put THRUTH above everything . Dont you see how scared the UK and US Spain etc were art the thought of an independent Scotland because England would have a Socialist country on its doorstep .Scots dont vote Tory only one MP in Scotland 100s in England we dont think the same as England our first thought is to those less well off than themselves Englands first thought is -how are my shares doing or is the price iof my house rising. THey just dont CARE the same its called Humanitarianism and they are sadly lacking in that area . WE have wairted 300 years while we were called "North Britain " and our resources used by England . Did you know 2 English kings invaded Scotland gathered up all our Heritage put them on ships an funnily enough BOTH ships sank. This has hampered Scottish history who said that =that Great Icelander Magnuss Magnusson -SCotland a story of a nation. THis was to turn us into second clas Englishmen ,it didnt work Scots have a defined individual personality a character we are not English . Its not over Alan we dont want English Toryism so we will rebel just like that verse in the English national anthem about "rebelious Scots " Dont you relise that English peoople are proud of being English and that an English survey before that last vote for freedom said Quote = Do you think of yourself as English or British -the reply ?? 83 % said I look onmyself as being ENGLISH and good luck to them but it makes the poor wee brainwashed Scot saying =Quote – I am a proud Scot but I am British look very foolish . When even all the Scottish Socialists voted yes and the greens and the working class poor then I am with them.1st Warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
A bio of one of their leaders, already in a position of powerhttp://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/13/syriza-rena-dourou-greece-fresh-airEither the journalist's reporting style is boring or she is….
As the comments relate to Syriza here I get the impression from the posts that this political group in Greece is not "kosher " in the eyes of many . Dealing in real life there is zero chance of Marxism taking over the people just wont vote for them in enough numbers to make a change in Greece . THeir only hope as it stands is voting for this left of centre group to achieve some relief from suffering. If the extensive rioting has not moved the people further left because they dont have an effective political leader to guide them then the goals you want will not be achived. It is all very well wishing on a philosophical basis but at the end of the day action must be taken . JUst like a certain South American country and Iceland who said this debt is crippling us and the poor are suffering so they told the IMF/Banksters/neo-cons -we are not paying up. And it worked . I watched a US political program on US TV 2 years ago where the participants were US big Business and various neo-cons as usual the standard of the debate in the US is very low . Up jumped one of them shouting quote="we will bring down the EU and will do it by hitting the small countries with debt to pay up . GReece was mentioned . The US /NWO dont want opposition they want war and a take-over and its working. JUst look at the US/EU """trade agreement "" a US business take-over that will hurt the poor badly and in the small print you wil have to eat MOnsanto DEvil Food and when Cameron millionaire -neo-con privatises the NHS completely they have a contract that says -NO going back to public ownership . THey will try and force this on Scotland but I am sure there will be riots against it -mainly in working class areas . IE Glasgow/Clydebank etc. Its all been planned out thats why I believe in action I spent time when younger helping those who needed help but this requires a revolution . THis will not happen in England no matter how much people wish for it . It boils down to working class voters (if any have jobs left in UK service industry. ) Good OLd Maggie -quote -I dont understand heavy industry all to bring down the trade unions and it worked because they all voted for her South of the Border . Scotland can vote left wing till its blue in the face but is defranchised by English votes and if you cant see that then you are sticking your head in the sand -see no evil hear no evil . WEstminster has achieved a level of brainwashing the public never thought possible in this country -dumb em down !!" they are just numbers to buy our goods and make millionaires into billionaires . Now thats the truth ! 2nd Warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
Duncan, I need a lot of convincing that somehow the average Scottish worker is more radical than a typical English worker. Just how is a person in Blackburn, West Lothian or Blackburn Aberdeenshire any more left-wing than the person in Blackburn, Lancs.I would not be as racist as to ascribe Scottish people as homogeneous, and think alike, nor would i dare declare that all born in England too were all the same, as you have in your post. Not ALL in England voted for Thatcher and you know this only too well so why slander and slur those miners who stood against her. Many millions of English voters did not vote for her. In the October 1974 election the Tories won 25% of the vote in Scotland. That rose to 31% in 1979 before falling to 28% in 1983 and 24% in 1987. In 1992 the Tory vote was 25%. In other words, Scots voted for Thatcher in rather greater numbers than is sometimes assumed. Only recently, after Thatcher was gone , 1997 and onwards, has the Tory vote dropped to the current 15% or whatever. ALB counselled you to use facts, good advice if you want to really understand politics.Try also researching a bit history such as of the Sheffield or Furness workers committees which were just as popular as the CWC. Union and left-wing militaancy is something that took place south of the border, too. Didn't Keir Hardie have to leave Scotland to get elected for a West Ham seat? You simply blinker yourself to what you want to see. Yes, you are right that many of us are cynical and sceptical about Syriza. We do have accurate memories and we do study our history.If you wish i could easily list those radical reformist political parties that promised change within capitalism and their resulting failures and the disillusionments. Even now, Syriza are showing they will be following policies that are no more subversive than any run-of-the-mill social democratic parties of the past. Surely you understand our misgivings in offering workers false solutions and unrealisable promises. They end up with the reformers being eventually rejected and a subsequent swing to the right, even the far-right. You seem to think a drowning man should clutch at straws. The only alternative that is plausible and realistic is to try and explain capitalism and educate our fellow workers to build a new society rather than patch up the old one…temporary fixes guaranteed never to hold. 2nd Warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
duncan lucas wrote:As the comments relate to Syriza here I get the impression from the posts that this political group in Greece is not "kosher " in the eyes of many . Dealing in real life there is zero chance of Marxism taking over the people just wont vote for them in enough numbers to make a change in Greece . THeir only hope as it stands is voting for this left of centre group to achieve some relief from suffering.A reasonable point (for once). I think that this is why and how people will vote on 25 January so that any Syriza government's mandate will be "to achieve some relief from suffering". It may even be able to achieve some for those hit the hardest, but that's all. It would still be a government of capitalism and will not be able to achieve its other promises of overcoming austerity by boosting the economy through boosting popular spending. That's been tried before in other countries and has never worked. The sad fact is that, as a government within capitalism, it will have to, or beforced by economic circumstances to, govern on capitalism's terms. Which, at the moment,means imposing some "austerity", maybe redistributing it a bit. In other words, to adapt a title of one of our pamphlet, a Syriza government will be able to do no more than re-organise austerity.PS can't we discuss Scotland on the thread on Scotland (even in an independent Scottish government would be in the same position as a Syriza government).
http://theconversation.com/markets-threaten-greek-democracy-ahead-of-election-36034This tells us some of the story in greece:
Quote:These policies brought a reduction of the fiscal deficit by €17.4 billion, at a cost in national income of more than double that figure. No western European country has suffered such a collapse of GDP since the end of World War II. We cannot find one example of a developed capitalist country with a lower national income than it had four years previously in any year between 1945 and 2010.Quote:Europe and most countries of the world need radical measures to restrict – or better still eliminate – the power of finance. The choice is democracy, however flawed it might be, or the dictatorship of finance. It really is that simple.MY how the mighty have fallen ! Once a radical party the Socialist party seems to put forward the face of acceptability to the Westminster neo-con government . You are paper tigers not living in the real world but a pseudo -Socialist non-reality . I went to high school with top marks but had to go out and earn a living due to being poor I didnt have choice . I wore tackety boots dirty overalls and greasy hands . I went on strike with other working class I lived it . You are the acceptable face of Socialism to each neo-con government that England votes in . JUst like new labour union officials who turned their bnack on the working class one worked in John Browns shipbuilding on the Clyde he was a Communist-moved to Singers sewing machines (Clydebank) turned into a "Labour Man " .Then he appeared on a political program on TV where Maggie was in charge .She greeted him like long lost brother and said this is the acceptable face of trade unionism -TURNCOAT ! To say you dont want to talk about Scotland is beyond belief . Who was it that said =We will try the POLL TAx out on the SCOTS ???? Thats right dear old Maggie -and who was it that rebelled against ??? The Scottish working class. Where is the joining together of Socialists with different countries coming out on the street in constant process shouting at every corner Fight for Freedom from Capitalist oppression . ?? I accept capitalism with a small c but you dont . Communism/ socialism/ Marxism didnt work in Russia/China now both capitalist and so do most Scots England as of 2015 doesnt vote in radical left wing parties nor parties that help the poor/sick/old but you find it unacceptable when I tell the Truth . Why dodge reality or has the neo-con thought up scare word -Terrorist got you worried . Used in the US to supress freedom of speech and action and puppydog Cameron doing the same here for his master . Where,s the 100,s of terorist acts in the US ??? A few False Flags dreamed up by the CIA / FBI and doing the same here. Who runs ISIS why the US with Israeli help -they even heal the wounded ones but not Palestinians of coarse. Who wants to bring down Russia ?? the US so get the sAudi,s to keep up production to lower the cost/barrel. to bankrupt Russia -not working though and yet you take the Putin is aggressor/warmongerer line while its the US that is -just look at the wars its started . Why cant you see or hear reality ? or do you believe the mouthpiece of the government the BBC.? 3rd Warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.This poster has been suspended for an indefinite period. Moderator1
Debate in the Weekly Workers letters with contributions from myself and ALB.However, one non-SPGBer letter by Tom Munday could easily have been written by one of us. While McBurnley of LU parrots the usual line leftist line…an unmarxist sheer will-power overcomes material conditions (i don't want to be mistaken as a determinist but there are limits to what can take place at a particular moment…if wishes were horses, beggars would ride)http://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1041/letters/
Another article in CPGB's Weekly Worker advocating that if they do win the election, Syriza refrains from assuming office. ALB and myself have already added to that diiscussion. In the previous week's letter pagehttp://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1042/avoid-the-temptation-of-power/Once again, overall, i think Eddie Ford's article reflects the appropriate application of the socialist approach.
Came across a mention of ANTARSYAhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_of_the_Greek_Anticapitalist_LeftIt is a further left alliance version of Syriza differing only in the supposed "radicalism" of their platfom of reforms.
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-4b6f-The-Greek-election-wont-end-the-fight#.VMIEethLdhcteh Greek communistb party put the boot in:
Quote:the president and leading officials of Syriza are feted in the mansions of the plutocracy, the IMF, in Texas, in the Bilderberg Group meeting at Lake Como in Italy, in the City of London.They loudly declare that Greece’s membership of the European Union and Nato is not disputed.
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