Syriza
November 2024 › Forums › General discussion › Syriza
- This topic has 255 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 9 months ago by alanjjohnstone.
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July 25, 2015 at 4:33 pm #107377AnonymousInactive
Whatever the leftwingers are doing in Greece is nothing new
July 29, 2015 at 9:19 am #107378ALBKeymasterApparently the Greek government did have a Plan B in case the negotiations failed:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11769089/Yanis-Varoufakis-facing-criminal-prosecution-over-Plan-B-as-Troika-deny-allegations-they-control-Greek-tax-system.htmlThis complaint is just internal Greek party politics. After all, the other side had one (Grexit for v5 years) and a plan B is what you would expect a government to have had or at least thought about (even if it might not have been workable). For the government not to have had one would have been irresponsible. I don't think anything will come of this.
July 30, 2015 at 10:43 am #107379Young Master SmeetModeratorThe plan seems to have been pretty ingenius:
Quote:Suppose, for example, Company A is owed €1m by the state; and it owes €30,000 to an employee — plus another €500,000 to Company B, which provided it with goods and services. The employee and Company B also owe, respectively, €10,000 and €200,000 in taxes to the state. In this case the proposed system would allow for the immediate cancellation of at least €210,000 in arrears.[…] Organisations or individuals could buy credits from the tax office online using their normal bank accounts, and add them to their reserve account. These credits could be used after, say, a year to pay future taxes at a discount (for example, 10 per cent).http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/27db9c44-3483-11e5-bdbb-35e55cbae175.html#axzz3hA3vriCXGiven that the requirement to pay taxes is the bedrock of fiat currency, that is a prrallel currency in all but name, but a pretty nifty bit of footwork.
July 30, 2015 at 11:25 am #107380ALBKeymasterIt's similar to what they did in California when it was virtually bankrupt in 2009:http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/02/news/economy/California_IOUs/Presumably that's where Varoufakis got the idea from.
August 17, 2015 at 12:29 pm #107381Young Master SmeetModeratorhttp://linkis.com/businessinsider.com/sbR0aVaroufakis doing a line-by-line critique of the Greek bailout deal
August 20, 2015 at 11:03 pm #107382alanjjohnstoneKeymasterFalling on his sword…http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34007859Be interesting to see if the leftist popularity continues or if the old gang returns.
August 20, 2015 at 11:31 pm #107383AnonymousInactiveFitting that a socialist revolution should start in the country which claims the first ever direct democracy. Well, you have to think positively
September 8, 2015 at 7:46 am #107384ALBKeymasterGreece has dropped out of the news recently but there's another general election there this month, on the 20th. According to this report (don't know how reliable it is) Syriza is set to lose:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11844657/Alexis-Tsipras-faces-shock-election-defeat-as-voters-on-course-to-punish-Syriza-at-the-ballot-box.htmlIf this does happen, it will be a repeat of the familiar pattern. Leftist party wins election, tries to make capitalism work for the workers, makes things worse, and is booted out at the next election.
September 8, 2015 at 10:38 am #107385duncan lucasParticipantALB it looks more a case of Syriza "caved in " to WEstern neo-CON demands and will introduce even harsher anti-poor acts . I dont know how they can call themselves "socialist " -obviously shame doesnt appear in their mind-set only in the ones that resigned and formed another party ,as long as its not a MK 2 version of treacherous behavour towards the old-sick-poor.
September 20, 2015 at 6:54 pm #107386alanjjohnstoneKeymasterSyriza win the General Electionhttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34307795A mandate for what , though?
September 21, 2015 at 3:46 pm #107387Young Master SmeetModeratorWell, given that the left splinter that opposed implementing the bailout agreement got no seats, it looks like it's a mandate to attack Greek living standards and make the population poorer. However, as Paul Mason notes:
Quote:Then there is the refugee crisis. When Syriza came to power in Spring it began releasing migrants who’d been rounded up and put in prison camps by the old coalition. But they could not feed them or find them work. Then the Syrian exodus from Turkey began – overwhelming the islands and fuelling the far right, which has begun to recover support, despite its leader admitting “political responsibility” for the murder of an anti-fascist rapper.Syriza never announced the policy of simply letting the migrants from Turkey move through the country and up into the Balkans. But that’s what the policy was. I got a sense last night that even many people disgusted by the party’s climbdown over austerity voted left because they wanted to avoid the Greek conservatives taking charge of Europe’s front line. Any return to tight border policing, round-ups and preventing migrants from moving out of Greece would have plunged this country into immediate chaos.That's interesting, and, as he notes, fundamentally a *political* choice. Furtehr:
Quote:the turnout was down to barely half the electorate. Many people concluded that since the country was being run from Brussels there was no point in voting.http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/tsipras-crushes-opponents-left-gain-term/4271#sthash.tGEwD5vm.dpufInterestingly, it seems it's PASOK that Syriza has eaten: the modern Social Democrat vote is holding up (given the rise of the fascists, a qualified good thing). A 7% fall in turn-out is significant, and 56% is dangerously low (but just enough).The question is, how the streets will react.
September 22, 2015 at 7:13 am #107388ALBKeymasterI must say I was surprised at the result. You would have thought that workers in Greece would punish Syriza for breaking its promise to end austerity but I suppose that, given the choice, they prefer to have austerity imposed by a government reluctant to do so rather than one keen to. Workers have been browbeaten into accepting capitalism and that's all capitalism has to offer. And where parties that claim to be able to protect or improve conditions for workers within capitalism end up.
September 22, 2015 at 8:00 am #107389duncan lucasParticipantI also was surprised at the result yes probably browbeaten into it on the lines of= you have no alternative to save Greece but give it a year or two and see if they still think the same way after many are driven to crime from hunger or homelessness and the "socialist " state will beat them down just like they have been told to do,cant have the working class getting above their station can we ? So another "great show " of socialism fails at the last hurdle. Your last sentence is apt -apply the same to Corbyn and see where all his outpourings of "left-wingism " end up ,already he is making capitalist compromises soon he will echo old "new Labour " he seems to be swayed too easily and accept opposing political points no leader should change policy like this or they are not a leader of the people.
January 25, 2016 at 2:49 pm #107390alanjjohnstoneKeymasterBeen a while since we discussed Syriza and our pessimistic jaundiced view of its prospects for success has been proved right. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/25/one-year-on-syriza-radicalism-power-euro-alexis-tsipras
Quote:A year on, the Syriza party is faithfully implementing the austerity policies that it once decried. It has been purged of its left wing and Tsipras has jettisoned his radicalism to stay in power at all costs. …Syriza was overcome…Still, it fought the good fight…Syriza is the first example of a government of the left that has not simply failed to deliver on its promises but also adopted the programme of the opposition, wholesale.But i am not sure whether this article is not being disingenious by blaming Syriza's failure on its refusal to leave the Euro, as if outside the Eurozone would have meant no, or at least less, austerity…some would claim it would have resulted in even more.
January 25, 2016 at 4:20 pm #107391ALBKeymasterCostas Lapavitsas was one of the Syriza MPs who left and who has always argued that the "solution" was to leave the euro and restore the drachma. He stood against Syriza in the elections in September and wasn't re-lected. So there might be a bit of sour grapes there too. In any event, as you point out, leaving the euro wouldn't have meant that the government could have abandoned austerity.
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