Syriza
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I don't see the point of this cartoon or, rather, I do and it's wrong as it's suggesting that there is an alternative to austerity under capitalism in a slump whereas there isn't as events in Greece are about to confirm. TINA is wrong as there is an alternative in socialism but TINAUC is true — there is no alternative under capitalism.
Sever from the Euro, save your dignity. Leave the greedy to themselves.I am an anarchist with a dream to make a difference in this world, one way or the other. Please follow my twitter feed @BonggtheBig to show support to our cause.https://twitter.com/BonggtheBig#UnfuckGreece!
WEll BigBong -are you really an arnarchist or a pale copy ?. A real one will already be on the MI5 "hit list " -his telephone tapped – his house under surveilance -his job in jeopardy -cant work for any UK telecommunications companies /banned from aLL government service jobs your name in the newspapers photographed taking part in UK violent demos the list is endless or are you just a physical /mental distraction put up by our security services ? Have you been like me (who isnt an arnarchist ) been attacked by GCHQ and taken off line and MS Windows scrambled -6 times in 3 years for lesser online actions of political propaganda . What German etc branches are you affilliated too and can you name names ? Any REAL one I have come across doesnt avertise like this .
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Greek Prime Minister has said he will resign rather than impose cuts.http://www.euronews.com/2015/06/29/tsipras-says-if-greeks-approve-the-eu-s-aid-plan-syriza-will-resign-rather-than/
I hope and pray that ,at last a blow will be struck against the IMF/EUCB etc etc that has made the poor poorer while millionaires become billionaires that the Greek people tell World Big Business -enough! no more will I lie down and die for you . Like several other countries who did the same and have recovered Greece can do it . I am sure Putin will help as he has said ,if the Greek government ask for help he will help WITHOUT all the sickening people killing policies of Big Business . Yes there will be a trade but not at the expense of the poor . This is the last thing Obommer wants Greece aligned with Russia as the pipeline could go through Greece to Serbia etc. and Russia will help with any protection against nasty moves against the country with "color " Revolutions bought and paid for by the US.
Given him his due. He's more honest than Scargill. Like Scargill he's probably leading his followers to a magnificant defeat but unlike Scargill who voted no to going back knowing that a majority of the NUM NEC would vote yes he's showing that his call for a no vote is not just a pose.Interesting passage in an article in today's Times by their (Tory) leader writer Oliver Kamm:
Quote:So, if you discount the fantasy of a revolutionary uprising that will sweep away the capitalist order and establish a socialist utopia, this is what you're left with. Greece's banking sector will collapse and its economy will need to generate surpluses year after year while in deep recession. And the euro would probably still be the national currency.I didn't know this before but apparently a country can use the euro as its currency without being a member of the eurozone or even of the EU: two other European countries, Montenegro and Kosovo, do. Neither has their own currency.To answer my own question, since a Socialist can't vote YES and a NO vote would make no difference, in fact would probably make things worse, then what Socialists should be doing in the referendum is writing on their ballot paper something like "I want a revolutionary uprising that will sweep away the capitalist order and establish a socialist utopia" (ok, not quite as "democratic revolution" would be better than "revolutionary uprising").In any event, what is happening in Greece will provide some relevant lessons as to whether or not it is possible to say "No to Austerity" under capitalism and the consequences if you try to (a lesson which the left here won't learn of course). Quite literally, the choice is Socialism or Austerity?
You may well be right, ALB, but as our Kids Stuff viseo says, it is the working class that pays for the mistakes of the capitalists. Maybe that should be the main socialist message to make. Only a small fraction of the €240bn (£170bn) total bailout money Greece received in 2010 and 2012 found its way into the government’s coffers to soften the blow of the 2008 financial crash and fund reform programmes. Most of the money went to the banks that lent Greece funds before the crash.Unlike most of Europe, which ran up large budget deficits to protect pensioners and welfare recipients, Athens was then forced to dramatically reduce its deficit by squeezing pensions and cutting the minimum wage.The troika of lenders first stepped in during the spring of 2010 after Athens could no longer afford to finance €310bn borrowed from a wide range of major European banks. Two years later, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), European commission and European Central Bank (ECB) came up with a second bailout that centred on a €100bn debt write-off by private sector lenders. Private bondholders saw the value of their bonds drop by 53% and took a further loss by exchanging the debt for securities with a lower interest rate. This eliminated about €100bn of debt, but €34bn was used to pay for various “sweeteners” to get the the deal accepted. That €34bn was added to the Greek debt. Greek pension funds, which were major private lenders, also suffered terrible losses. Then €48.2bn was used to bail out Greek banks which had been forced to take losses, weakening their ability to protect themselves and depositors. Lastly, €140bn has been spent on paying the original debts and interest.Less than 10% of the bailout money was left to be used by the government for reforming its economy and safeguarding weaker members of society.Greek government debt is still about €320bn, 78% of it owed to the troika. As the Jubilee Debt Campaign says: “The bailouts have been for the European financial sector, while passing the debt from being owed to the private sector to the public sector.”http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/29/where-did-the-greek-bailout-money-go
We know that most of the money the Greek government owes is owed to German and other European banks, but is what that Guardian economics correspondent, Philip Inman, says below correct? It sounds odd:
Guardian wrote:Unlike most of Europe, which ran up large budget deficits to protect pensioners and welfare recipients,Is that what really happened in Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain, even in Germany and France or Britain. That's not my recollection. I wonder what his source is.
I think the ‘basic’ problem is that the Greek government is caught in a debt spiral how it got there is a slightly different matter. It doesn’t just have one ‘debt’ but a whole series of them or a collection of IOU’s or government bonds that are continuing to come in as payable. When an $85 IOU comes in it has to raise the money by writing out another $100 IOU and ‘selling’ it for $85 cash. EG; http://markets.ft.com/Research/Markets/Government-Bond-Spreads so it's debt is increasing at a rate of 15% That means the national debt to gross domestic product increases http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp And as the national debt to gross domestic product ratio increases so does the bond spread etc. And as the more precarious you economic situation is the ‘interest’ you have to pay on loans go up; so now they are at the mercy of the international pay day loans people. I suppose if in the long term effect you are paying out 15% interest on your GDP and your debt to GDP ratio is about 175% you are having to set aside about 25% of your GDP to service loans. Which is completely unsustainable especially with an austerity driven shrinking GDP. Not an unusual equivalent for many workers who probably have to pay even more than that out of their ‘income stream’ to the money lenders; much of it being de-facto rent money otherwise considered as merely interest only payments on mortgages etc. What might be interesting, ‘superficially’, is Japan that only has to pay 0.5% interest on bonds whilst it has a much higher debt to gross domestic product ratio of circa 230%. Anyway it only has to pay about 230/100 x 0.5 = 1.2% interest on GDP. There are other Stats that need to be looked at though; like the ability, or potential, of a government as an economic entity to generate more revenue that it expends.
SNP's Nicola Sturgeon on Greece. Another reason, i think, why some UK politicians might fear her if she becomes a national rather than a nationalist politician. I have noticed Cameron's silence. In fact all the Tories and Labour. Not heard the media report UKIP's opinion either. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/30/referendums-eu-leaders-greek-exit-no-vote-austerity-nicola-sturgeon
Greek Unions oppose referendum:https://www.etuc.org/press/etuc-supports-greek-trade-union-call-cancel-referendum#.VZP1yixmpMGI suppose if this had happened here, this would be like rump Labour dominated unions opposing the actions of a TUSC (*shudder*) government. Still, it's worth considering this is the voice of people who definitely have the immediate practical benefit of Greek workers as a concern.
Hmm, from the sounds coming out of Tsipras at the moment, the referendum is more like a threatened strike ballot whilst in the middle of negiotiations, something to be taken off the table. I don't see where the stick is, though.
alanjjohnstone wrote:SNP's Nicola Sturgeon on Greece.She's got another admirer. Today the Times interviewed Pablo Iglesias, the leader of Podemos in Spain which is organising rallies in support of the Greek government.:
Quote:During the interview with The Times in Catalonia, Mr Iglesias expressed his support for Sinn Fein and the Scottish National party. "For me the fundamental element has to do with the defense of social rights, as with Sinn Fein, defending the rights of the working class," he said. "I admire the story of the Labour Party and the unions in Britain but I am not optimistic. What happened in the last British elections was not the victory of the Tories but the failure of Labour."If Scotland has been an independent country in 2008 she would have had a chance to put her money where her mouth is. An independent Scottish government would have been unable to bail out the two big failed banks in Scotland (RBS and HBOS) and would, like Ireland, have had to rely on loans from the EU to do this. Which would have come with strings attached. She could have organised a referendum to reject them ….
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