Syriza
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http://www.primeminister.gov.gr/english/2015/06/18/prime-minister-alexis-tsipras-article-in-der-tagesspiegel-german-taxpayers-are-not-paying-for-greek-pensions/Tsipras on the propaganda about Greek pensions
Quote:According to the Ageing Reports (2009, 2015), pension expenditure in Greece rose from 11.7% of GDP in 2007 (slightly higher than the 10.4% in Germany) and reached 16.2% in 2013 (while in Germany the numbers remained almost stable). What caused this increase? Was it due to an increase in pensioners or an increase in pension amounts? The answer is: Neither. The number of pensioners has essentially remained unchanged and pensions have shrunk dramatically due to the implemented policies. Simple arithmetic is sufficient to reach the conclusion that the increase in pension expenditure as a percentage of GDP is entirely due to a decline in GDP (denominator), and not to an increase in expenditure (the numerator). In other words, GDP declined faster than the pensions…The pensions of the elderly are often the last refuge for entire families that have only one or no member working in a country with 25% unemployment in the general population, and 50% among young people.Faced with such a situation we cannot adopt the logic of blind and horizontal cuts, as some have asked us to do, which would result in dramatic social consequences.Here's something they could cut (if cuts they have to);https://euobserver.com/defence/128300That's a higher percentage than even Britain which has imperial(ist) ambitions. Guns before electricity for pensioners, then?But I suppose their rightwing, nationalist allies in government (Greece's equivalent of UKIP) won't let them. Or maybe the colonels-in-waiting ….Also this from a couple of years ago:http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2012/03/07/germany-france-holland-sold-greece-e1-billion-of-arms-amid-debt-crisis/
The points made by Alan Jjohnstone about the position of Greece,s economic viability are viable and Syriza must have read them as well as of now Greece has signed an agreement with Putin to construct a gas pipeline through Greece .This is in the face of EU/US opposition as they want Putin out of europe as anybody who looks at the actions rather than the words can see . This will help Greece,s GDP as Greece will 50 % own it eventually after Russian gas passes throught it . This wil be continuous year to year along with Russian and Greece co-operating in the defence field Putin says a lot of help will come from Russia financially on much better terms than the US owned EU/IMF etc . As of now the EU ultimatum runs out in 2 weeks time . As these new documents have been signed it looks to me that there will be a "Gretix " . This will upset the US who realise Putin can run this pipeline nearer its friend Serbia as Serbia and others will be cut off when gas is stopped running through Ukraine in the end of 2018. It matters not to me how you think about Putin as a Capitalist as his brand of Capitalism isnt far right -neo-con make the poor poorer and the rich richer but in practical terms this will in the end help Greece,s old -sick-poor . HE has rightly taken a stand no more off the OAP of Greece,s Pensions . I agree with Alan that this is a mainstay of the Greek poor you live or die by your income in old-age The question is will the US allow Greece to "go Russian " as we havent been neerer WW3 NOT by Putins "agression " putout by the lying West but by US blatant wars against countries it doesnt like to help Israel and Big Business USA/UK who run both countries 1.5 million killed in Iraq alone (US State Dept figures ) The US has admitted umpteen times it will only accept a Unipolar World so to save the worthless $$$ Nato-AKA-the US it must get Rusia to do something like invade Ukraine or the Baltic countries as the latest outpourings from the US Senate is they are angry and mystified that they cant get Putin to do it even moving Nato up to Russia,s border against ALL the Treaties they signed .Think ! what would happen if Putin did the same on the MExico /US border. WAR !!!
This is an interesting comment from Daily Telegraph writer with the title "Greek debt crisis is the Iraq War of finance"
Quote:Tsipras accused the creditors of "laying traps" in the negotiations and acting with a political motive. He more or less accused them of trying to destroy an elected government and bring about regime change by financial coercion.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11687229/Greek-debt-crisis-is-the-Iraq-War-of-finance.htmlArticle is probably motivated by anti-Eu agenda but there is very much an element of truth, i think.How often have third world governments been brought down by the IMF and the World Bank economic sanctions?The importance of the Greek situation is the domino theory…If Greece prevails, Podemos in Spain …and the left in a host of other countries will be inspired to resist austerity. It is the same policy that Chomsky recognised in Latin America…The powers cannot permit examples of alternatives to exist. An article that is so pro-Syriza, you'd think it was the Morning Star.
alanjjohnstone wrote:An article that is so pro-Syriza, you'd think it was the Morning Star.Actually the Morning Star has not been particulary pro-Syriza. In fact it supports more the position of the Greek Communist Party (KKE) which is hostile to the Syriza government and wants Greece to withdraw not only from the euro but, like the CPB here, also from the whole EU. Here's a typical example from last week:http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-a04d-Greece-Athens-backs-harsh-steps-to-win-bailout#.VY7hpVKebTQI imagine, though, that the KKE will support a No vote in the referendum. And us if we were there or socialists who are?
ALB wrote:I imagine, though, that the KKE will support a No vote in the referendum. And us if we were there or socialists who are?As individuals or as a Party?
Syriza – proof that capitalism, can not be run in our interests regardless of who we elect. Take note Greens SNP Zeitgeist etc etc
Depends of the question, which i have no idea what it actually to be. (perhaps someone might enlighten me)If it is a straight , "Do you agree the government should accept the terms being imposed by the creditors and the EU…YES OR NO"…then i can understand why both the party and individual members could answer NO. I would think as a Party we would have a problem if the wording was along the lines of "Do you endorse the government's actions in the negotiations with the EU and creditors? YES OR NO. "
According to this, the question will be:
Quote:According to the cabinet proposal, voters will be asked to respond to the following question:“Greek people are hereby asked to decide whether they accept a draft agreement document submitted by the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, at the Eurogroup meeting held on June 25.”Those citizens who reject the institutions’ proposal will vote, “Not Approved / NO”, while those citizens who accept the institutions’ proposal will vote, “Approved / YES”, according to the cabinet proposal.It seems that, according to another report, I guessed wrong about the attitude of the KKE.
Quote:Greek lawmakers on Sunday authorised prime minister Alexis Tsipras’ proposed 5 July bailout referendum, setting Greece on course for a plebiscite that has enraged international creditors and increased Greece’s chances of exiting the eurozone.The government easily passed the 151-vote threshold needed to authorise the referendum, with deputies from the far-right Golden Dawn voting with the government and pro-European opposition parties New Democracy, Pasok and To Potami and the KKE Communist party voting against.Apparently they want a YES/NO referendum on whether to withdraw from the EU instead. Here's a typical anti-Syriza article from their website. It's what we used to say about the Labour Party ("used to say" because it's not even that now).
While we were told during the height of recession that some banks were just to big to let fail, it seems countries won't get similar treatment and be bailed out.Certainly the conditions insisted upon the banks for government hand-outs were nothing like the austerity being imposed upon Greece….Just another example of one rule for us…another rule for you.
From the horse's mouth http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/06/28/as-it-happened-yanis-varoufakis-intervention-during-the-27th-june-2015-eurogroup-meeting/An interesting reflection on how European capitalist insitutions respond to actual democracy in action….Imagine the audacity of those Greeks …actually asking the population for their opinion and consent !!!
This older post from 2012 is of interest i thinkhttp://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2012/05/16/weisbrot-and-krugman-are-wrong-greece-cannot-pull-off-an-argentina/I find Yanis to be a clear writer in conveying his ideas. Whether he is right in them , i am one hardly qualified to say.
It looks as if Syriza has chosen to go down fighting. Good on them in a sense I suppose but they won't win. Whatever happens the outcome is going to be continued austerity. I doubt if they will survive long as the government either. To get their referendum proposal through they had to rely on the Greek equivalents of UKIP and the BNP. Ominous as to which way the Greek people, who are not socialist but nationalist minded, might jump?The other thing is that the currency cranks who claim that banks don't have to rely on deposits and loans from other banks to function are not saying anything. If they were right the Greek banks wouldn't need to worry — they could just use their supposed power to "create money out of thin air". Another nail in the cranks' coffin.
I just read Steve Keen on Greece. He is not returning to his version of credit creation but he does talk about "democracy" in action.
Quote:Firstly they designed a system which would only work if capitalism never had crises. Secondly, when a crisis hit, rather than backpedalling on their flawed rules, they doubled up on them. Then, when the people had the temerity to elect a government which opposed their agenda… Well it’s obvious, isn’t it? The people must be overthrown.http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevekeen/2015/06/25/bureaucrazies-versus-democracy/
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