Syria: will the West attack?

[Sympo]

I believe that it's quite likely that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons against civilians.I've seen people compare the accusation against the Assad regime with the accusations that were thrown at Saddam Hussein after 9/11 (i.e. that Iraq was behind 9/11). But 9/11 didn't happen in Iraq, and certainly not in an area which was controlled by anti-Saddam rebels.But I also think it's dumb that the US attacked Syria even before it has been proven that they are responsible.Did anyone actually die in the US attack against Syria?

[alanjjohnstone]

Sympo, the SOYMB blog has followed the Syrian situation from its earliest days when it began as part of the Arab Spring and was peaceful protests. In response to Assad's repression of those, some took to returning the violence, the origins of the Free Syrian Army.This militarisation of resistance created the opportunity for the intervention of foreign powers who indeed did incite a military-solution to remove Assad and regime-change. The escalation of civil disobedience to civil war can be placed at the feet of foreign powers, as can the arrival of foreign fighters freely permitted to infiltrate Syria.Here is the first blog on Syria from Aug 2011which should be read as an indication of its potential for peaceful changehttp://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2011/08/revolution-without-leaders.htmlAnother post from April 2012 that begins to show how the situation is being transformedhttps://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2012/04/syrian-struggle-for-democracy-is-on-two.htmlA year later the blog published this in Nov 2013“I think it’s definitely possible to see a revolution in the future. But if we don’t accept that we have lost now—that our revolution has stopped, or been put on pause, and that is a big dispute among activists—then that means that everything that’s happening now, and all the crimes that are being committed by Jabhat al-Nusra and ISIS, will be written in history as part of the Syrian revolution…"https://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/11/talk-about-next-syrian-revolution.htmlI think these articles are invaluable sources in any history of the Syrian War, to blow the blog's trumpet.You are right that Syria always had the instability but also recall how it was feted and commended for participation in the First Iraq War to expel Saddam from Kuwait.I recognise fully the weakness of that blog statement in trying to explain from a working-class view a long protracted and complex civil war.

[Anonymous]

Sympo wrote:

I believe that it's quite likely that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons against civilians.I've seen people compare the accusation against the Assad regime with the accusations that were thrown at Saddam Hussein after 9/11 (i.e. that Iraq was behind 9/11). But 9/11 didn't happen in Iraq, and certainly not in an area which was controlled by anti-Saddam rebels.But I also think it's dumb that the US attacked Syria even before it has been proven that they are responsible.Did anyone actually die in the US attack against Syria?

The Western Powers have been after the natural resources, and geographic location of Syrian since 1945, and they have made several political and economic manoeuvres in order to control them, they have been after all the resources of the Middle East before WWI, and they have the plan to partition Syria in the same manner that they wanted to do with IraqProbably China new silk road will cross thru Siria and the Middle East, it is not silk it is large distributions of commodities, technologies and capital, it is not opium like the British did in Hong Kong, and the Pharmaceutical are doing from Afganistan.Probably, they used chemical weapon in others occasions, but this one was staged by the CIA and its terrorists, or nothing has happened, it is only another excuse in order to invade Siria, even if they did, it is not their business either, Is Syria or Russia allowed to invade, or drop missiles in the USA, France, or UK territories ? Is Russia or China allowed to place missiles in Mexic, or to dock warship in the Pacific or Atlantic ocean? The obvious answer is negative, but they have the right to go and destroy others countries like they have done in Africa, Asia, Latin America and the Middle East.Those Western Powers have been the first one to use chemical weapons in others countries, the war criminal Winston Churchill was the first one to approve the use of biological bombs in Germany, and they used incendiary bombs to kill thousands of civilian German, and the USA sprayed a large territory of Vietnam with chemical weapons, and they used mini-nukes in Iraq.September 11 did not take place in Iraq but it was used an excuse in order to launch an invasion against Iraq and Afganistan after their natural resources, and now they have discovered that they have Lithium and Coltrane, like Venezuela has the same natural resources, and they want regime change based on the old excuse of the struggle against Communism. That is not their fucking problem.Nobody knows if they killed any civilian, but the question is: If they try to destroy a chemical weapon laboratory why peoples were walking around he destroyed buildings and the fumes did not spread in the atmosphere? Nobody in the surrounding area got sick or die. Why did they launch the invasion before the arrival of the inspectors? Iran has been inspected many times and they have not found any atomic bombs, and still, they are saying that they are building atomic bombs, but the USA and Russian have more than seven thousands atomics bombs, why the inspectors do not inspect them? It is like Fidel Castro said one time that the Western Powers want countries to have Machetes, Mochas and Kitchen knife. It would be also dumb for the Syrian government to attack the Syrian population with Chemical weapons when they know that Western powers just need any small excuse in order to attack themThey have also accused Cuba of having laboratories to produce chemical weapons, and that is a lie, what they have are laboratories to produce vaccines for cancers, and the Pharmaceutical companies want to take the formulas, those vaccines only cost one or two dollars inside, and outside they might cost more than 10,000 dollarsThis is a struggle between gangsters and terrorists, and in essence, they are all the same, and all of them have a long history of terrorism, gangsterism, and alliance with criminals, and dictators

[alanjjohnstone]

Another video to watchhttp://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-43776015/syria-chemical-attack-girl-seen-in-hospital-video-speaksYou take your picks….

[Anonymous]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Sympo, the SOYMB blog has followed the Syrian situation from its earliest days when it began as part of the Arab Spring and was peaceful protests. In response to Assad's repression of those, some took to returning the violence, the origins of the Free Syrian Army.This militarisation of resistance created the opportunity for the intervention of foreign powers who indeed did incite a military-solution to remove Assad and regime-change. The escalation of civil disobedience to civil war can be placed at the feet of foreign powers, as can the arrival of foreign fighters freely permitted to infiltrate Syria.Here is the first blog on Syria from Aug 2011which should be read as an indication of its potential for peaceful changehttp://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2011/08/revolution-without-leaders.htmlAnother post from April 2012 that begins to show how the situation is being transformedhttps://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2012/04/syrian-struggle-for-democracy-is-on-two.htmlA year later the blog published this in Nov 2013“I think it’s definitely possible to see a revolution in the future. But if we don’t accept that we have lost now—that our revolution has stopped, or been put on pause, and that is a big dispute among activists—then that means that everything that’s happening now, and all the crimes that are being committed by Jabhat al-Nusra and ISIS, will be written in history as part of the Syrian revolution…"https://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/11/talk-about-next-syrian-revolution.htmlI think these articles are invaluable sources in any history of the Syrian War, to blow the blog's trumpet.You are right that Syria always had the instability but also recall how it was feted and commended for participation in the First Iraq War to expel Saddam from Kuwait.I recognise fully the weakness of that blog statement in trying to explain from a working-class view a long protracted and complex civil war.

The expression Civil war used by the Western powers and especially the USA is a joke. None of them has ever supported any popular uprising, on the contrary, they have tried to demolish them. During the war in Kuwait, there was an uprising in Iraq and they let the army of Sadam of Hussein to repress the uprising.

[alanjjohnstone]

The Bahrain protests and the intervention of Saudi Arabian tanks to suppress the popular will would be another example of acquiescence of those so-called democratic humanitarian super-powers.Again our blog has posted a series of articles on how this was ignored for political reasons by the UK and the UShttps://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/search?q=BAHRAIN

[Sympo]

Marcos wrote:

"September 11 did not take place in Iraq but it was used an excuse in order to launch an invasion against Iraq"If the United States wants to invade Syria, why haven't they already? Why did they launch some strikes that might not have even killed anyone?"Nobody knows if they killed any civilian, but the question is: If they try to destroy a chemical weapon laboratory why peoples were walking around he destroyed buildings and the fumes did not spread in the atmosphere?"Was the chemical facility located in the city or outside in some wasteland? Was it only alleged chemical facilities that were bombed? Did the United States claim that the facilities actually contained chemical weapons, or that the facilities did research?"It would be also dumb for the Syrian government to attack the Syrian population with Chemical weapons when they know that Western powers just need any small excuse in order to attack them"The regime of Assad has already proven to have done stuff like throwing barrel bombs and torturing people. Aren't these excuses for an American attack?"This is a struggle between gangsters and terrorists"I agree but we can't act as if there's no way that Assad isn't responsible.

[Sympo]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

This militarisation of resistance created the opportunity for the intervention of foreign powers who indeed did incite a military-solution to remove Assad and regime-change.

Does this mean that you believe that this statement is correct: "If it wasn't for the West, Syria would have no civil war or armed uprising"?

[alanjjohnstone]

Yes.I hope you did read those three links, crucial to understanding the evolution of the Syrian Civil War

[Anonymous]

Sympo wrote:

Marcos wrote:

"September 11 did not take place in Iraq but it was used an excuse in order to launch an invasion against Iraq"If the United States wants to invade Syria, why haven't they already? Why did they launch some strikes that might not have even killed anyone?"Nobody knows if they killed any civilian, but the question is: If they try to destroy a chemical weapon laboratory why peoples were walking around he destroyed buildings and the fumes did not spread in the atmosphere?"Was the chemical facility located in the city or outside in some wasteland? Was it only alleged chemical facilities that were bombed? Did the United States claim that the facilities actually contained chemical weapons, or that the facilities did research?"It would be also dumb for the Syrian government to attack the Syrian population with Chemical weapons when they know that Western powers just need any small excuse in order to attack them"The regime of Assad has already proven to have done stuff like throwing barrel bombs and torturing people. Aren't these excuses for an American attack?"This is a struggle between gangsters and terrorists"I agree but we can't act as if there's no way that Assad isn't responsible.

It doesn't make any difference if the laboratories were located in the backyard of Assad, or in the desert, the Western Powers cannot take the liberty of bombarding others countries and destroy their infrastructure and kill peoples.Inside the territories of the Western Powers, there are thousands of chemical plants and factories,  Can they be bombarded by others countries? There are factories who have affected the lives of millions of peoples because they have leaked their chemicals. Monsanto is doing that in many countries like in Haiti where many US corporation have poisoned the rivers extracting gold, and silversIt doesn't make any difference if Assad is a Frankenstein or a vampire, it is the mission of the workers to take care of the solutions of their own oppression and oppressors, the oppressors can not resolve our problems.There is a new ideological current moving around the world, that the rich peoples can resolve our problems because they are not corrupted, the accumulation of wealth is corruptionLike Engels wrote: No peoples can be free while they oppress others peoples. Peoples must wake up from their pipe dreams and their ideological drugs.

[Anonymous]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

The Bahrain protests and the intervention of Saudi Arabian tanks to suppress the popular will would be another example of acquiescence of those so-called democratic humanitarian super-powers.Again our blog has posted a series of articles on how this was ignored for political reasons by the UK and the UShttps://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/search?q=BAHRAIN

They have given more importance to the poisoning of one double spy agent than to the killing and injuring of hundreds of Palestinian by the Israeli army. They have been supporting the killing of thousands of peoples in Yemen by the Saudi, and the destruction of Libya by terrorists. The Israeli without any provocations from Syria they  bombard that country and then when somebody responds they raise the flag of anti-semitismHillary Clinton openly spoke on the television of how they killed Ghadaffi like typical gangsters, and they hung Sadam Hussein like in the time of the Western cowboys, using a kangaroo court,  but they are protecting Henry Kissinger and many others criminal like Hussein and Ghadaffi

[Anonymous]

Sympo wrote:

Marcos wrote:

"September 11 did not take place in Iraq but it was used an excuse in order to launch an invasion against Iraq"If the United States wants to invade Syria, why haven't they already? Why did they launch some strikes that might not have even killed anyone?"Nobody knows if they killed any civilian, but the question is: If they try to destroy a chemical weapon laboratory why peoples were walking around he destroyed buildings and the fumes did not spread in the atmosphere?"Was the chemical facility located in the city or outside in some wasteland? Was it only alleged chemical facilities that were bombed? Did the United States claim that the facilities actually contained chemical weapons, or that the facilities did research?"It would be also dumb for the Syrian government to attack the Syrian population with Chemical weapons when they know that Western powers just need any small excuse in order to attack them"The regime of Assad has already proven to have done stuff like throwing barrel bombs and torturing people. Aren't these excuses for an American attack?"This is a struggle between gangsters and terrorists"I agree but we can't act as if there's no way that Assad isn't responsible.

Wars are not done the way that you have presented here, war is a product of the capitalist market, and it is not produced by coincidence, mistakes, or the personal desire of a leader, war is a result of the capitalist market, and the capitalists always need an ideological justification in order to carry over their objectives, that is the reason why they brainwash the workers first.The real history of the USA ( I am not talking about the fairy tales taught on the school system and television ) has shown that all wars have been preceded by an ideological motivation including the war with Japan, the war to take over the territories from Mexico, and the wars to steal the lands from the Native, and all the wars that have taken place in Latin America, and Asia, and this one is no different to the others.Before WWII more than 85% of the US workers ( I do not call them Americans because that it was a concept created by the expansionist Monroe, to create exclusivility  ) did not support wars, as soon as Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese army everybody was supporting the war based on nationalism and patriotism, and the attack was provoked because they imposed an embargo over Japan and it was affecting the Japanese capitalists, like the embargo against Russia and China are affecting both capitalist groups, and they are using ideological excuses to motivate the workers to support their actions. The war against Germany also needed an ideological excuse based on a so-called monster is known as Adolf Hitler when they had already done the same things in others countries and inside with the black peoples and the Indians, in South Africa England had similar concentration camps in the Apartheid, and the French had colonies where they had killed millions of human beings in Africa and VietnamThe real reason was economical they want to take  control of the resources of the Pacific and Asia and to destroy the Japanese empire, and millions of human beings were killed, like the Ottoman empire was divided in pieces Economic embargo is a war, like the one imposed against Cuba for more than 50 years, but they do not do it openly, they need ideological reasons to do itLet's say that the government of Syria did use chemical weapons against the Syrian ( I will not call it their peoples, that is a wrong expression, governments are not part of the peoples ) would that give the right to the Western powers to invade a so-called sovereignty nation? Will they allow to do it in the opposite way?The USA has invaded/ intervened  Latin America more than 125 times based on ideological excuses and they have been supported by the US workers, they have created fake guerrillas groups and fake communist parties, they have labeled  fake communists and 'Marxists"  uprising in places where they do not have a communist party, and peoples have never read or heard  anything about Marx and Engels or Lenin.They sent 30 thousand troops to the Dominican Republic looking for communists, and some military young peoples did not know the geographic location of that island, or they  never heard about the existence of  that place over the face of the earth, and more than 10 thousand peoples were killed, and it was an uprising of poor peoples in a small neighborhood in the capital, none of them knew anything about communism, and the USA newspapers were saying that they were cutting heads and killing babies.In the case of Iraq, it took them more than 12 years to disarm that country by imposing an embargo, and millions of peoples died because of that embargo based on ideological excuses to obtain support from the workers, the real objective was to take the natural resources of Iraq and others countries around the Middle East

[PJShannon]

Here is our pamphlet on war.https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/printpdf/3904

[Anonymous]

admin wrote:

Here is our pamphlet on war.https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/printpdf/3904

Until now it is one of the best pamphlet written about the history of the capitalist wars and its causes, and it also debunks many myths created about the causes of war such as overpopulation, weapons industry and manufacturers, and human nature prompt to wars. The real causes of wars is capitalism, the rivalry between the capitalists and the struggle for the world market. Simple as that, we do not need a doctorate degree to understand itThe last attack on Syria is based on the same motives, there is no need to dig about chemical attacks, chemical laboratories, dictators, liberators and all others bumpers stickers used by the capitalists to justify their wars and motivate peoples to support them. 

[Sympo]

Marcos wrote:

"Wars are not done the way that you have presented here"I am not trying to be a jerk but where have I written anything about what I believe the causes of war are? Please quote me where I have stated that wars aren't caused by the system of Capitalism.As far as I know, you will unable to find such a quote written by me. "It doesn't make any difference if the laboratories were located in the backyard of Assad, or in the desert, the Western Powers cannot take the liberty of bombarding others countries and destroy their infrastructure and kill peoples"I haven't argued that Western powers should be able to invade or bomb countries.

[Author]

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