Suggestion: Close the web forums

[alanjjohnstone]

The question is a simple one.Is the current forum fit for purpose?Does it bring visitors to discuss and debate our case for socialism?Are the benefits outweighed by the handicaps?Perhaps a solution would be to restrict the forum to comments on the Socialist Standard articles and centre our discussion and debates on deepening and extending the scope of those articles.  Many topics in the Socialist Stanard can be improved by more recent news and research coverage that crops up since publication. 

[Anonymous]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

The question is a simple one.Is the current forum fit for purpose?Does it bring visitors to discuss and debate our case for socialism?  

This forum is not bringing any new sympathizers, and it has lost its main objective. If a new person comes to this forum it will leave because we are not dealing with the actual issues that are affecting the working class. For intellectual discussions, we have the Socialist Standard and the Pamphlets. We are attracting dropouts and renegades

[Young Master Smeet]

I'll just add one thing: the mod should send more posts to the Rubbish Bin, especially "off topics": that is not censorship, that way at least the rest of us can follow threads without wading through a pile of rubbish plus three reminders adding top the rubbish.Just nuke them from orbit.

[Anonymous]

Young Master Smeet wrote:

Just nuke them from orbit.

 

[Anonymous]

Brian wrote:

Or a further alternative would be for party members to post questions relevant to the party case.  For instance:  How relevant is the Marxist theory in the twenty first century?

And perhaps a topic of the day. This was my intention here. I tweeted it a few times and received over 1000 views. I don't know if it had  any impact but would we ever?http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/what-socialists-mean-povertyShouldn't flood it though, perhaps a major topic every week and share

[ALB]

Brian wrote:

Or a further alternative would be for party members to post questions relevant to the party case.  For instance:  How relevant is the Marxist theory in the twenty first century

That didn't work, did it? . Which goes to show that it's better to leave forum members discuss what they want to rather than trying to artificially discuss what's considered more appropriate.

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

That didn't work, did it? . Which goes to show that it's better to leave forum members discuss what they want to rather than trying to artificially discuss what's considered more appropriate.

I wouldn't dismiss it yet. It is early days. Try it with the obvious Trolls removed. LBird is a good troll but a troll nevertheless and he does a good job. Why is Bob Andrews still on the forum? I think Brian's idea could work. Perhaps discussing something topical? 

[Anonymous]

Brian wrote:

DJP wrote:

I guess this is unlikely to be a popular suggestion, but as the person that set the forums up I think I should comment.I think the webforums should be closed down, in terms of propoganda value for the party I would say there value is not positive but negative. There's too many people using it for wringing out there favourite hobby-horse, whatever that may be, and not enough members of the public making enquiries as to what socialism is and such like, which is what the forum is supposed to be for.Or an alternative would be to rapidly delte users and comments that use the forum merely as a means for persuing their personal greivences or otherwise derail discussions from there main purpose.

Or a further alternative would be for party members to post questions relevant to the party case.  For instance:  How relevant is the Marxist theory in the twenty first century? 

[/quote]You already posted one and it has been  taking out of track

[alanjjohnstone]

There seems to be two reasons why people post here.To convey useful information to other members – a valuable qualityTo ask questions and clarification on some specific issue – equally importantWhat was hopefully going to reach out to non-socialists or find a wider left-wing audience has simply not occurred (albeit we have attracted a few individuals who wish to make known their particular view-point but they are not connected to any broader movement to be of any consequence)So perhaps the goal of the forum should be to concentrate on information-sharing and political education which may require a re-design of the forum webpages.

[PJShannon]

Quote:

So perhaps the goal of the forum should be to concentrate on information-sharing and political education which may require a re-design of the forum webpages.

The website already serves that purpose. There are about 800 users signed up to the website. They do not necessarily login when looking at pages. When they do login there may be weeks of a break from their last login..At the moment I write this there are two users, myself and Alan, but eleven 'guests' some of whom are not logged in users. They are not necesarily in this forum, but may just be perusing content.The best thing members can do is to visit others websites, blogs, and fora and providee links occasioanlly to relevant articles or content on our site or the blogs which link to us.I'd like to see many more guests.The next best thing is to be friendlier ot each other and not take criticism as a personal attack.

[Anonymous]

Marcos wrote:

You already posted one and it has been  taking out of track

I have found this to be a big problem in the past. But it was usually members with long posts which isnt so bad. It is important to recognise these threads for what they are : attempts to attract new visitors by being interesting and of course presenting the party's case

[Anonymous]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

There seems to be two reasons why people post here.To convey useful information to other members – a valuable qualityTo ask questions and clarification on some specific issue – equally important

In a few cases there's a third reason – egotism and self-aggrandisement.

[Bijou Drains]

admin wrote:

Quote:

So perhaps the goal of the forum should be to concentrate on information-sharing and political education which may require a re-design of the forum webpages.

The website already serves that purpose. There are about 800 users signed up to the website. They do not necessarily login when looking at pages. When they do login there may be weeks of a break from their last login..At the moment I write this there are two users, myself and Alan, but eleven 'guests' some of whom are not logged in users. They are not necesarily in this forum, but may just be perusing content.The best thing members can do is to visit others websites, blogs, and fora and providee links occasioanlly to relevant articles or content on our site or the blogs which link to us.I'd like to see many more guests.The next best thing is to be friendlier ot each other and not take criticism as a personal attack.

I don't think that the goal of the forum is limited to just propaganda and sharing information. The forum also helps socialists to connect and in my opinion, if used properly, helps maintain morale. Being a good distance for HO, in an area where the level of activity is a minimum, the forum is a life saver for me, in helping me to keep in touch with relatively sane people. The importance of comradeship is often overlooked and the presence of the forum has been a big part in me getting back to being more active in the party.I do agree that there is too much bile and invective on the forum and that it must look a little unedifying for visitors. I know I have been guilty of that on a few occasions myself. One of the difficulties with social media is that it when your participating in it it feels like a conversation between two people down the pub, you get a bit relaxed and you say things you shouldn't on the spur of the moment. We all need to remember (me included) that this is every much a published media outlet as the Standard.There are undoubtedly some complete bell ends posting on here (we all know who they are). As has been demonstrated by the lack of responses (or interest) to Knob Andrex's lame attempts at humour, if you ignore them they don't get the feedback they desire/require, in their fruitless attempt to boost their already crushingly low sense of self esteem, by actually having someone notice them. As members of the Party (and ex-members who are still Socialists) it is important to show a bit of self discipline and treat these toss pots with the level of interest they deserve.In a similar vein. If Party members were at a Party sponsered public meeting, it would be very disappointing if members of the party used that meeting as a forum to sort out internal party issues. Thinking about this topic and the forum, prior to this post, it occurs to me that the forum is to some extent a kind of party propaganda meeting. Again we need to be more thoughtful about airing our dirty laundry in a public meeting, again we need to be more thoughtful. The PM function can be used more effectiely in thes matters and as has been shown, by including a number of participants in the PM thread it is possible to have the internal debate without it turning into a public slanging match.In terms of propagating the party case, I don't think for one moment that the forum is going to be as useful as the Standard, the website, public meetings, one to one contact, etc. It may bring a few interested souls into the sphere of the Party and that's good. Although other political groups use their equivelent sites as a recruiting grounds, we have to remember that their views are poorly defined , their membership is not dependent on understanding, it doesn't require the knowledge and understanding becoming an SPGB member does. It is a false comparison.To me the importance of the Forum is to keep members and sympathisers in touch, to help us develop our ideas by discussion and debate and to sharpen our case by discussing key issues. We also need to remember that party members are all human beings with all of the failings that go with it. We are not all expected to be friends, but we can all be friendlyYFSTim

[Anonymous]

Some good points, Tim. You managed to contribute positively without taking pot shots at others. 

[Anonymous]

There appears to be a number of issues being conflated here. The issue of Trolls, abuse, personal attacks and the discussion of 'internal matters'. I suspect there is unanimity of objection to the first three, which leaves the last one. Integral to and inseparable from the socialist case is the revolutionary movement's democatic strucure and organisation. It is going to be very difficult if not impossible to avoid revealing and discussing 'internal' matters while claiming to be open and democratic. Then there is the use of the modern means of communication to increase democratic participation. Should this be abandoned? If 'internal matters' are referred back to spintcom as Alan suggests then there would be no facility for non-members to contribute; of course this may be considered a good idea.Isn't  the subject of this thread an 'internal matter'? Is it OK for non-members to contribute?  

[Author]

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