Socialist Utopia/What and How?

December 2024 Forums General discussion Socialist Utopia/What and How?

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 43 total)
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  • #85275
    JoanOfArc
    Participant

    What does your socialist utopia look like?

    And how do we get there in your opinion?

    #124449
    JoanOfArc
    Participant

    Realistically how can we ge the ball rolling in this life? instead of waiting for the self destruction of capitalism and the ensuing chaos.  Instead of waiting around like vultures to pick up the pieces and all fighting for our own way to be enforced, surely we need to be putting the power of change in the peoples' hands NOW.

    #124451
    JoanOfArc
    Participant

    So you are assuming here that we all agree on this Vin? What's more have you considered what everyone outside of this group thinks? if you only have a party opinion then sure, i can find that on your link. thanks.

    #124450
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I posted before I finished. Fair enough, if you have read some of the party's articles

    #124452
    JoanOfArc
    Participant

    How would Socialism be established?Socialism can only become possible when a majority are aware of its implications, want it and are prepared to work for it peacefully and democratically. Socialism can not be forced upon people. As its establishment depends upon majority understanding and a global democratic effort to bring it to fruition, we envisage people the world over using their votes to elect socialist candidates to political office. Once enough Socialists had been elected to office this would be a clear signal that a majority wanted socialism. HAHAHA good luck on that then.  There are no socialist parties that will cut it. it seems to me we're waiting for uttter devastation first in the hope that people will give us a vote in desperation as capitalism has caused such utter suffering. i'd rather not wait til then thanks.  I'd rather be a bit more forward thinking of the hear and now.

    #124453
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    JoanOfArc wrote:
    How would Socialism be established?Socialism can only become possible when a majority are aware of its implications, want it and are prepared to work for it peacefully and democratically. Socialism can not be forced upon people. As its establishment depends upon majority understanding and a global democratic effort to bring it to fruition, we envisage people the world over using their votes to elect socialist candidates to political office. Once enough Socialists had been elected to office this would be a clear signal that a majority wanted socialism. HAHAHA good luck on that then.  There are no socialist parties that will cut it. it seems to me we're waiting for uttter devastation first in the hope that people will give us a vote in desperation as capitalism has caused such utter suffering. i'd rather not wait til then thanks.  I'd rather be a bit more forward thinking of the hear and now.

    The 'here and now' is what we need to deal with but state capitalism has been tried. The SPGB said state capitalism  would fail and it did.State capitalism is still capitalism and If you support capitalism then it will not 'collapse'. 

    #124448
    JoanOfArc
    Participant

    Engels saw state capitalism as providing the tools for socialism. state capitalism in a captialist society has never been tried before where it is purely for profits that are churned directly back into the system for the common good. i do not mean forced takeovers…… please if you will Vin, can you give me an example of state owned profit making enterprise competing against big business.thanks if you can, very much appreciated mate. cheers.

    #124454
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    JoanOfArc wrote:
     please if you will Vin, can you give me an example of state owned profit making enterprise competing against big business.thanks if you can, very much appreciated mate. cheers.

    A state owned profit making enerprise is big business.I was a miner when the mines were owned by the state. If we went on strike for safer working conditions, the state starved us back to work and its uniformed bully boys beat us with trungeons.State owned enterprises are owned collectively by the ruling class and run in its interests"The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie."Marx

    #124455
    JoanOfArc
    Participant
    Vin wrote:
    JoanOfArc wrote:
     please if you will Vin, can you give me an example of state owned profit making enterprise competing against big business.thanks if you can, very much appreciated mate. cheers.

    A state owned profit making enerprise is big business.I was a miner when the mines were owned by the state. If we went on strike for safer working conditions, the state starved us back to work and its uniformed bully boys beat us with trungeons.State owned enterprises are owned collectively by the ruling class and run in its interests"The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie."Marx

     but i don't see what the problem initially is with making profit for the common good. surely the ruling classes won't like it? surely it will be for the people and not the richest?

    #124456
    JoanOfArc
    Participant

    if the people allowed (for they have the power to change things with their consumer spend) for it to happen, then wealth would get redistributed.but it'll be the people that decide with their spending power so if you spend on state manufactured and produced goods and services then the profit goes back into your schools, pays for your education, the NHS, local community art centres, to the vulnerable and those in need of support.  the state, if the people let it, would get richer and richer.i also believe in being self sufficient as a nation where possible.  as keynes, the economist, said later in his life when he wrote a paper about national self sufficiency where reasonable.

    #124457
    JoanOfArc
    Participant

    Friedrich Engels, in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, argued that state ownership does not do away with capitalism by itself, but rather would be the final stage of capitalism, consisting of ownership and management of large-scale production and communication by the bourgeois state. He argued that the tools for ending capitalism are found in state capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

    #124458
    JoanOfArc
    Participant

    p.s. pleased and proud to bump into an ex miner here…………that might sound daft………. but i just am…. (pleased to meet you Vin, not daft haha)

    #124459
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    JoanOfArc wrote:
    Engels saw state capitalism as providing the tools for socialism. state capitalism in a capitalist society has never been tried before where it is purely for profits that are churned directly back into the system for the common good. i do not mean forced takeovers…… please if you will Vin, can you give me an example of state owned profit making enterprise competing against big business.thanks if you can, very much appreciated mate. cheers.

    It was Lenin, and he borrowed the idea or the concept from Nikolai Bukharin,  and he also absurdly indicated  that it  was for the benefits of the working class. Since when capitalism has been beneficial for the working class ? . The first intent and realization of state capitalism was the Soviet Union

    #124460
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    JoanOfArc wrote:
    Friedrich Engels, in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, argued that state ownership does not do away with capitalism by itself, but rather would be the final stage of capitalism, consisting of ownership and management of large-scale production and communication by the bourgeois state. He argued that the tools for ending capitalism are found in state capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

    Can you show any paragraph, or citation of Engels indicating  that state capitalism will end capitalism ? 

    #124461
    JoanOfArc
    Participant
    mcolome1 wrote:
    JoanOfArc wrote:
    Friedrich Engels, in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, argued that state ownership does not do away with capitalism by itself, but rather would be the final stage of capitalism, consisting of ownership and management of large-scale production and communication by the bourgeois state. He argued that the tools for ending capitalism are found in state capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

    Can you show any paragraph, or citation of Engels indicating  that state capitalism will end capitalism ? 

     well i think it's clear from this paragraph that no he did not think that state capitalism on its own would end capitalism.  he did though, think it would provide the tools.Norway, singapore and China have a strand of state capitalism and it seems pretty successful.but no it's not the be all and end all, for sure. it's more a means to an end.

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