“Slavery” case: a Maoist cult?

[alanjjohnstone]

"The "capitalist press" have in fact been phoning us to see if we have an information on this group. We received 4 calls today at Head Office from various media " Another reason for a press officer/media committee. We could have  issued a public statement and distributed to all the media outlets, if we had a email contact list database. 

[Anonymous]

jondwhite wrote:

If true, what was suspected to be a sect turns out to be a cult. For me a sect is a group that puts the interests of the group above anything outside the group. A cult is something that denies the validity of anything outside the group.The question is, how do you stop groups turning into sects or cults? The organisational structure? The members?

 They can be both: A sect and a Cult. Any organisation based on the worshipping of an idol or a leader can be become a cult, those groups have turned "Marxism" into a religion, the so called concept of anti-revisionism explains  everything, which means, do not question the Bible or the Church. The Maoist are not the only ones, most Stalinists groups  qualified for that. If you look at the old pictures of Stalin or Mao anybody can come to the conclusion that they have been beatified by the Vatican.  Fidel Castro and Chavez are being  considered as eternal. No wonders in the past  the CIA preferred to build and financed phony Marxist-Leninist  parties using Maoist theoriticians What is the difference between the cults around Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, the American presidents and their pupils ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F8CoxKLzHU   Take a look at this two, one is European and the other one is Caribbean, and both'were anti-communists, and one of them before being killed by the CIA, he was already making negotiation with the Soviets in order to serve a new master

[ALB]

jondwhite wrote:

Robert Griffiths of the CPB/ Morning Star commented on Channel 4 News

That could have been us, but I can see why he felt a particular need to repudiate the group. The media are saying that "Comrade Bala" was once a member of the "Communist Party of England". This was a Maoist group which has nothing to do with the "Communist Party of Great Britain" and its successor the "Communist Party of Britain". But I suppose that we should be grateful that it is only the CP and not socialism or Marxism in general that is being smeared.We will see if we can get in on the act locally as the place where the cult lived in Lambeth is only a few streets away from the ward we are contesting in a local council by-election.Griffiths, incidentally, doesn't get his facts right either. He says that the group/cult went out of existence in 1978. We have a leaflet of theirs in our archives advertising a meeting in December 1980.

[Young Master Smeet]

Ian Bone picks up a good point:http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/a-surfeit-of-cults-lambeth-central-by-election-1978/

Bone wrote:

If you didn’t fancy the Maoists on Acre Lane you could choose from these six socialist candidates that came bottom of the poll. Cultist Corin Redgrave fought the seat for Gerry Healy but I love the Socialist Unity candidate….followed by five non-unity candidates. Left Unity beware.

[Anonymous]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Another reason for a press officer/media committee. We could have  issued a public statement and distributed to all the media outlets, if we had a email contact list database. 

There has been a staffed Media Committee for a few years now; it's just that for various reasons it has not been able to get its act off the ground.  However, all that is about to change….hopefully.http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/world-socialist-movement/kent-and-sussex-regional-branch-maidstone?page=7#comment-10165   

[ALB]

Young Master Smeet wrote:

Ian Bone picks up a good point:

He forgot Commander Boaks who came last with 27 votes.

[Young Master Smeet]

Oh, and Bone also links to this interesting Maurice Brinton article:http://libcom.org/library/suicide-for-socialism-jonestown-brintonI'd never heard of the incident described.  On a quick skim read, I think this paragraph is relevent:

Brinton wrote:

Many sects live in political isolation. This is a further mechanism for ensuring the control of the leaders. The members are not only 'rescued' from their past, they are 'protected' from their own present. Such sects refrain from anything that would bring their members into too close a proximity with the outside world. Recruitment is encouraged, but closely monitored. Members are urged to give up their hobbies and their previous friends. Such external relationship are constantly scrutinised, questioned, frowned upon, deemed suspect. United action with other groups – of a kind that may involve discussion or argument – is avoided, or only allowed to 'trustworthy' leaders.[…]Open, non-authoritarian organisations encourage individuality and differences of opinion. But criticism impairs the pain-killing effect of cults – and the cohesion of sects. When a cult is threatened both Leader and followers may go beserk. The best analogy to this is the withdrawal reaction from a drug on which someone has become hooked. Criticism impairs the efficacy of such drugs. So does any suggestion that the Leader doesn't know, or that perhaps there is no hard and fast answer to certain questions.

[alanjjohnstone]

The title of the meeting made me recall that Traditional Chinese Medicine was named so and basically began by Mao since a NHS  service with proper drug treatment was unachievable …so bring back the glorified village herbalists. Mao always used western medicine. 

[jondwhite]

mcolome1 wrote:

jondwhite wrote:

If true, what was suspected to be a sect turns out to be a cult. For me a sect is a group that puts the interests of the group above anything outside the group. A cult is something that denies the validity of anything outside the group.The question is, how do you stop groups turning into sects or cults? The organisational structure? The members?

 They can be both: A sect and a Cult. Any organisation based on the worshipping of an idol or a leader can be become a cult, those groups have turned "Marxism" into a religion, the so called concept of anti-revisionism explains  everything, which means, do not question the Bible or the Church. The Maoist are not the only ones, most Stalinists groups  qualified for that. If you look at the old pictures of Stalin or Mao anybody can come to the conclusion that they have been beatified by the Vatican.  Fidel Castro and Chavez are being  considered as eternal. No wonders in the past  the CIA preferred to build and financed phony Marxist-Leninist  parties using Maoist theoriticians What is the difference between the cults around Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, the American presidents and their pupils ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F8CoxKLzHU   Take a look at this two, one is European and the other one is Caribbean, and both'were anti-communists, and one of them before being killed by the CIA, he was already making negotiation with the Soviets in order to serve a new master

Not all leader-follower organisations are sects/cults though? What is the difference?

[Young Master Smeet]

Not necesarilly authoitative, but it matches similar check-lists I've seen over the years.http://www.anandainfo.com/cult_checklist.html

Cult Check-List wrote:

"Comparing the following statements to the group with which you or a family member or loved one is involved may help you determine if this involvement is cause for concern. If you check any of these items as characteristic of the group in question, and particularly if you check many of them you may well be dealing with a cult and should critically examine the group and its relationship to you or your loved one.1) The group is focused on a living leader to whom members display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment. 2) The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members and/or making money.3) Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged.4) Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, denunciation sessions, or debilitating work routines) are used to suppress members' doubts.5) The group's leadership dictates how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, or get married;) leaders may determine types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth.6) The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, it's leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).7) The group has a polarized we-they mentality that causes conflict with the wider society. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).9) The group teaches or implies that its "superior" ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).10) The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control then11) Members'subservience to the group causes them to give up previous personal goals and interests while devoting inordinate amounts of time to the groups." 12) Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/cultchecklst.htm

Quote:

(a) engage in deceptive recruitment practices? (recruiters typically disguise the true nature and aims of the group when seeking converts)(b) tend to target vulnerable individuals, as outlined above?(c) offer unconditional affirmation and support initially, but soon make its continuance contingent on obedience?(d) have a closed social system that makes a special effort to isolate acolytes from family, friends, etc.?(e) use constant bombardment with pro-group and pro-leader messages and exclusion of other messages?(f) have a rigid, authoritarian hierarchy?(g) have a leader and ruling clique that are perceived to possess infallible insight, supernatural powers, etc.? Do they claim to have been chosen by some higher authority to rule, and thus to be excused from the normal social restrictions on one’s behavior?(h) have an eclectic, often muddled and internally contradictory, set of teachings – usually a magic-laden philosophy that claims to have infallible answers to those “big ticket” questions of existence?(i) have a strict behavior code that governs all aspects of how one should think, feel, and act? Are there strong penalties for deviation?(j) instill fear of outsiders (the “bunker mentality”)? Does the group try to convince members they are powerless to act without the group’s support and that the world “out there” is uncaring and hostile?(k) engage in major forms of exploitation (e.g., financial, occupational, or sexual – of self, spouse, or children)?(l) demand immoral, unethical, or illegal activity on the part of its members?

[Anonymous]

BTSomerset wrote:

I expect the capitalist press will use this as another stick to beat marxists with.

The criminal capitalists blame everything on Marxism, and many zombies believe their liesIn the past with the excuse of the fear against communism (now being replaced with the war against terrorism, like the war against drugs ) many warships and troops were sent to different countries in the whole world, producing great massacres.  To defend democracy, and to  teach others peoples how to be democratic, with  rifles and machines guns, or the gun boat diplomacy. Grenada a small island located  in the Caribbean where the army was armed with Machetes and Mochas, the reactionary Ronald Reagan said that it was Communist  threat to the US, a country that is armed with more than 10 thousands atomic bombs, and army bases in Puerto RicoHe also  also said that the Communist Sandinista were trying to enter through Texas, and he used  a groups of drugs dealers to finance and start a war in Central America against Marxism and Communism, where thousands of innocents peoples were killed.When the Mexican army went to Louisiana to  help peoples during the disaster of Katrina they had to enter unarmed, and George Bush took a battalion to Argentina to protect himIn 1965 around  50,000 troops were sent to the Dominican Republic by a war criminal named  Lyndon B Johnson due to the fear against communism and Marxism,  a country that did not have a Communist Party, and the workers did not know what communism was, and a massacre was perpetrated against  the poor workers from the poor neighborhoods, all unions leaders were killed, persecuted, and all organizations were wiped out There are still looking for communists, Marxists,  and terrorists in the poor neighborhoods  of Haiti. As soon as  the warships were stationed in that country the traffic of  drugs from Colombia increased up to 300%, the president was kidnapped, and Catholicism became the official religion instead of Voodoo The press in both occasions ( Grenada and Dom Rep )  created a big  hysteria against Marxism and communism, most of those journalist they did not know anything about socialism or Marxism, they are just a bunch of parrots repeating what others peoples have told them.The real journalists have been killed, like in Colombia where  many journalist have been assassinated. A real Journalist wrote that where ever the big power parked their warship the drug traffic is implemented, or it is increased like in Haiti and Afghanistan 

[jondwhite]

Thanks for the cult check list. How would you define a sect? What are the differences between ordinary leader-follower groups and sects? What are the differences between cults and sects?

[Young Master Smeet]

I think one common description of a sect, drawn from Charlie's writings, is a group that emphasises differences over similarities.

OED wrote:

A school of opinion in politics, science, or the like; also, more or less jestingly, applied to a group of persons who attach importance to some peculiar crotchet about matters of social custom or the like.

or

OED wrote:

b.  †(a) A system of belief or observance distinctive of one of the parties or schools into which the adherents of a religion are divided; sometimes spec. a system differing from what is deemed the orthodox tradition; a heresy. Obs.  (b) A body of persons who unite in holding certain views differing from those of others who are accounted to be of the same religion; a party or school among the professors of a religion; sometimes applied spec. to parties that are regarded as heretical, or at least as deviating from the general tradition.

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

I think this does have political implications. Many Maoist and Trotskyist groups are self-styled "vanguard parties" formed around a single leader (or Leader). People who join such groups already consider themselves followers and are psychologically prepared to submit to the will of the central committee or its leader(s).It is not surprising that from time to time some of these leaders take advantage of this. Why for instance would women have submitted to Trotskyist Leader Gerry Healey's sexual advances if they had not already been prepared to submit to him politically? This incidentally also happened just up the road from us, actually in Clapham High Street where the SLL/WRP had its headquarters. Simon Pirani, ex-WRP, has attempted to explain this phenomenon in this article on his blog:http://piraniarchive.wordpress.com/home/investigations-campaigns-and-other-stuff/the-break-up-of-the-wrp-from-the-horses-mouth/It appears that the vanguard party, especially when led by a single leader, is a much more dangerous form of organisation than we normally assume.

I have seen many irrational, strange,  and curious situationsIn the past I met certain vanguardist organizations that the single leader was like a god that peoples had to render worshipping like the divine entity of a religion, and coincidencially most of them were Maoists.  They had servants in their homes, and the funds of the party were used to support him and his family. He was the only one authorized to speak on public, or to the pressKlonsky and Hardial Vain who were  leaders of two large  Maoist vanguardist  groups they were seen as gods, and Klonsky had body guards to protect him, the same thing happen with.the leader of RCP, he is the American Mao Tse Tung.The Maoist and Enverist groups  used to hang more pictures in the walls than the saints of the Catholic church, it was  like some form of  idolatry, lately I have seen pictures of Marx, Jesus, and Simon Bolivar, and both are not compatible with Marx body of ideas. In Bolivia Ernesto Che Guevara de La Serna was declared a saint, or the  patron of the Boliviian peasantsWomen  in certain groups were  the continuation of the demestic labor of women, they had to serve to the leaders and cadres of the vanguardist party, they had to cook, they had to clean the tables, and they had to clean and organize the place, and some had to please sexually to some of the leaders because the leader was running away, he was being persecuting working for the proletariat and he needs some sexual satisfaction, they were only using to design leaflets, to do the typing, secretarial works.I do not know how women are being treated in the guerrillas fighters groups at the present time,  it must be the continuation of the domestic labor because most men in those groups they have chauvinist conceptions, and the leaders are men, they have their own sect and cult, they are always worshipping one man as the best warrior, the best commander, and when they die, or they are killed they become eternalI never saw  women as member of a Central Committee, except News and Letters, but it was not a vanguardist groups, and they did not have a central committee,  but they created a cult around Raya DunayeskayaWe do not need to read too many books in order to understand what a cul and a sect are. The sect is only a piece, a fraction, or fragmentation of any original group, and the cult is the worshipping to a particular leader, personality  of any sect, or original group ( The Evangelicals are sects of the Catholic church ) Marxism can not  be called a cult and the groups that call themselves as Marixst are not a sect of Marxism, because they did not emerge from Marxism, or socialism, most of them emerge from Leninism, and Leninism emerge from the wrong distortion and wrong conception of the Russian social democracy, Russian nationalism,  and the second international, Leninism did not emerge from Marxism or socialism.The WSM is not a sect or a cult , because we did not come from any group,  and we did not try to imitiate any other groups, we never had leaders, unquestionable individuals, we questioned Marx and Engels, we did not come from Leninism and Boishevism. We have been the only real socialist group which has ever existed. I know most of the major groups that existed, and  they do not looked even closer to the WSM, maybe the SLP of America, and they worshipped Daniel DeLeon, and they  called themselves Marxist-Deleonist

[ALB]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25162946 Looks as if BTSomerset may be right. Just listened tothis on the 8 o'clock news on BBC Radio 4 which talks of a "Marxist commune" and have sent off this complaint

Quote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25162946Just listened to this item on the 8 o'clock news and wish to officially complain about this being described here as a "Marxist commune" when clearly they had nothing to do with Marx but were followers of the Chinese dictator Mao.In any event I'd be interested in your justification for using the word "Marxist" rather than "Maoist". Is this BBC policy or just a mistake on the part of an unprofessional journalist?

JUst noticed that the word "Marxist" has since been changed to "Maoist". Didn't know I had such influence !Looks as if it was an incompetant sub-editor or news reader after all.

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