Sinn Féin in ’16?
November 2024 › Forums › General discussion › Sinn Féin in ’16?
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December 4, 2014 at 10:47 am #83444Young Master SmeetModeratorQuote:When people were asked who they would vote for if an election were held tomorrow, party support – when undecideds are excluded – compared with the last Irish Times poll in October was: Fine Gael, 19 per cent (down five points); Labour, 6 per cent (down three points); Fianna Fáil, 21 per cent (up one point); Sinn Féin, 22 per cent (down two points); and Independents/Others, 32 per cent (up nine points).
Given the election is expected next year, this raises the prospect of Sinn Féin being at least in government in the North and the South in 2016, in time to make a lot of noise about the Easter Uprising, and to be in place for the commemorations of the Tan War. Although Sinn Féin suffer from a lack of transfers, a large number of independents may well benefit them, as they may be more icnlined to bloc with them (and there is even talk of Fianna Fáil becoming willing to go into coalition with them (confirming their reputation as power hoors).
Sinn Féin talk left, and are certainly trying to out-radical the other parties. Of course, in office, they could only offer compliance with teh dictates of capitalism.
December 5, 2014 at 10:31 am #106689Young Master SmeetModeratorhttp://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1037/ireland-we-need-a-united-marxist-party/
Quote:The most interesting difference with previous upsurges is the level of organisation. The protests against water metering began early in the year on an estate in Cork city. Residents and supporters blocked access to stopcocks and prevented the installation of meters. Gardaí were called and the situation resulted in a stand-off. Residents refused to back down and after several months Irish Water contractors were forced to give up. At the same time similar protests began on estates in Dublin and spread to Drogheda, Galway, Limerick, Donegal and many other parts. Throughout the country people are organising on their streets and estates to stop the metering. They are blocking access not only to stopcocks, but to entire roads and sometimes towns, to keep out the contractors. Social media is awash with reports of confrontations with the gardaí and contractors, and of the ‘water fairies’ who are busy sabotaging any work that has been done.So, the working class are organising in their own defence, and the Weakly Wanking publishes an article about how a party is needed to lead these movements.
December 5, 2014 at 11:25 am #106690jondwhiteParticipantThe SPGB position is that the working class do need a political party to contest political power. Sabotaging water meters however is something any community can do.
December 5, 2014 at 11:46 am #106691Young Master SmeetModeratorAnd therein lies the difference. The conquest of political power does need to be organised by the working class, but it emphatically doesn't need leninist organisations running its campaigns and struggles. And socialist understanding isn't going to arise from a campaign against water meters.
December 5, 2014 at 1:20 pm #106692jondwhiteParticipantI'm not sure the Weekly Worker think there is such a thing as 'leninism'.
December 5, 2014 at 3:07 pm #106693ALBKeymasterI think they take the historial revisionist Paul Le Blanc's view that Lenin was just another common or garden pre-WW1 leftwing Social Democrat and not the theorist and practioner of the vanguard party. I don't think this holds up though some of Lenin's pre-war general writings are not all bad.Incidentally, wasn't the WW originallly called The Leninist?But, to stay on thread, one section of the old IRA/Sinn Fein did embrace Leninism: the "Official IRA", also known as "the stickies":http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/20677Present-day Sinn Fein are of course the product of the breakaway and ultimately more successful (and more Catholic Nationalist) "Provisional IRA".
December 8, 2014 at 1:43 pm #106694Young Master SmeetModeratorQuote:The Irish government will ask the European Court to revise its judgement in the case of a group of men who said they were tortured in Northern Ireland.Those who became known as the hooded men claimed they had been tortured after being interned in 1971.This news stiory led me to the angriest I can remember in a long while. The BBC news reader on 5Live, interviewing one of the victims started asking questions along the lines of 'Considering the situation at the time, isn't this understanable?'. I couldn't believe my ears, how far does the British state have to go before journalists will stand up and act remotely decently? The man being interviewed decribed how he blieved he would die when being pushed blindfold from a hellicopter (it was only a couple of feet off the floor, but he couldn't know that. In the torture playbook the faked execution is a standard practice).The RTE programme can be viewed here:http://www.rte.ie/news/player/prime-time/2014/0604/
December 11, 2014 at 10:09 am #106695Young Master SmeetModeratorPossibly the Irish Times shirt-stirring, but:http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miriam-lord-no-tanks-on-leinster-lawn-but-revolution-close-to-seat-of-power-1.2033502
Quote:And who organised the protest? The Right 2 Water campaign, apparently. Although that’s not how it looked. Looking across from Leinster House, above the perimeter wall, the scene looked for all the world like a republican rally with a green forest of Sinn Féin flags flying from the rows nearest the stage, augmented by Sinn Féin cumann banners, giant tricolours and Éirígí flags….If Sinn Féin lost ground to the hardline left on the water issue in October, it was clear the party was out to claim/reclaim the issue yesterday. They did it with some style. This will have put more than a few noses out of joint among the likes of Paul Murphy, Richard Boyd Barrett and Joe Higgins.Gazumped, I believe is the word. The shinners playing the outsider card again, and using their wider base to nick a populist movement. I suppose ea good example of the problem of the idea of trying to use a reform campaign to build a movement, established (or more established) groups can recuperate such movements very easily. Especially oppositions that have more room for manoeuvre than governments.
December 11, 2014 at 1:37 pm #106696jondwhiteParticipantOr reformists can better promise/deliver reforms to more people than non-reformists.
December 11, 2014 at 3:19 pm #106697Young Master SmeetModeratorExactly, those who want to keep capitalism can deliver reforms that don't destroy capitalism, and those who propose reforms that would destroy capitalism would be instantly seen to be proposing the "impossible".
December 11, 2014 at 3:27 pm #106698ALBKeymasterSo, now those campaigning against water rates have two rival groups trying to hi-jack their campaign — the Irish Republicans of Sinn Fein and the Trotskyists. Down with Leaders was never a more relevant slogan.Meanwhile Sinn Fein have a new recruit:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2867123/Irish-singer-Sinead-OConnor-joining-Sinn-Fein.htmlIt seems her views have changed somewhat than twenty years ago:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1990s/1993/no-1061-january-1993/%E2%80%9Cabolish-money%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%93-sinead-o%E2%80%99connor
December 11, 2014 at 7:24 pm #106699jondwhiteParticipant'Down with water rates irrespective of parties' might be a more popular slogan.
December 15, 2014 at 10:19 am #106700Young Master SmeetModeratorPaddy Power's odds on the next Irish election:http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/irish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=591648That Gerry Adams is 6-1 to be Taoiseach is telling.I was flicking through the Irish Sunday Independent (it was there in the pub) and it was one long sustained attack on the Sinn Fein "fascists" (authoritarian populists, possibly).Anyway, there was also this interesting article in which former Taoiseach John Bruton questions whetehr the '16 uprising and the War of Independence were even necessary:http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/historical-decisions-should-always-be-debated-in-a-spirit-of-free-speech-30833281.html
Quote:Home Rule would have evolved peacefully into dominion status and full independence for the area that now constitutes this state, without the loss of life. This is because an Irish Home Rule electorate, with a much enlarged franchise, would have demanded, and obtained just that.Just as the Treaty was used as a peaceful stepping stone to greater independence, so also would Home Rule for 26 or 28 counties have served as a stepping stone to independence…but without all those deaths, and all that bitterness.I think that is a fair assessment.As is:
Quote:But we must remember that, if we give high-profile commemorations to centenaries of acts of violence, without balancing commemorations of non-violent parliamentary achievements, we send a mistaken and dangerous message down to future generations.[…]In commemorating the 1916 Rebellion, and the subsequent War of Independence, we should not glamorise war. We should instead focus attention on the victims of war… all the victims.December 15, 2014 at 11:22 am #106701ALBKeymasterI agree that the passage you quote from Bruton is a fair assessment. However, his other views are not so acceptable, such as his saying that the Irish Nationalist Party in the House of Commons was right to have supported the British side in the First World War (though he does make a telling point against the Irish Republicans for supporting the other side):http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/1916-Easter-Rising-was-not-a-just-war-says-former-Irish-leader-John-Bruton.htmlIncidentally, the Irish Independent has a pretty unsavoury history.The other thing is that the result of next year's general election in the rest of the British Isles could lead to a repeat of the pre-WW1 situation when the Irish Nationalists held the balance of power (and propped up the Liberal government) with, this time, this role being fulfilled by the Scots Nats (propping up a Labour government?)
December 15, 2014 at 11:39 am #106702Young Master SmeetModeratorhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_IndependentSee what you mean. I knew they'd had a recent spat with gerry Adams when he mentioned the IRA raid on their offices (his argument was that establishment politicians who lionise Michael Collins are a bit cheeky to criticise the provos, fair enough, as far as it goes).
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