Scottish Referendum
- This topic has 160 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 2 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Just seen Tommy Sheridan on the BBC news. He's telling everyone they'll have Socialism north of the border if the "Yes" vote wins. Of course this numpty, as he stated, equates Socialism with the "Public Ownership" of North Sea Oil and Gas ETC. Are the Fish going to be owned by Scotland if they swim in Scottish waters? Moreover, are they going to have to pass through a type of "customs checkpoint" if they want to swim in "Foreign" waters?
Listening to you doing well expressing our ideas right now, Adam. Shame we had no SPGB case put over on local radio here.Sheridan and his Solidarity were in alliance with RESPECT and George Galloway and we can see how weak that is because on the referendum they hold diametrically opposing views.
I've just been listening to this broadcast. I thought Adam got a very fair crack of the whip.Had to laugh when Elizabeth Jones started talking about Shrodinger's cat and wave particle duality to describe the capitalist economy! 'Look at it too closely and it flies away'. If only!
Having been on the ground, so to speak, for few days now, i found that the main reason for those in the No camp is not really an attachment to the UK because of any British nationalist feelings but a fear of the unknown, a leap into the dark. More than one person has mentioned the uncertainty of pensions but it is this uncertainty at the back of everybodies minds…even many Yes voters. This trepidation about the future is built upon by the No politicians with their talk of no going back, an irreversible decision. This i think is all related to our campaign for socialism, which is an even greater leap of 'faith'.The reformists position is to introduce gradual steps that people can judge the progress…and that is what they have done…rejecting that course because of its failures in the past. If it is the better devil you know that motivates half the population to remain in the UK unless the Yes campaign clearly lay out specific details of bread and butter issues then surely the same will be expected by the population in regards to ourselves. And all we can say is …who knows what the future holds.Sure, i generalise just as we generalise about how socialism will tackle the day to day problems and decisions of the world…and if the SNP's set out promises and policies aren't believed or trusted, why should ours be. We face that credibility gap. Therefore, i think my conclusion is that we must increase our efforts to simply explain just how our new society would organise and provide for all. We have to build that confidence in the capability of people to actually fulfil the ideals without sacrifices being made. I know our speculations will begin vague but as people climb on board, more occupations and professions are reflected in our membership, so the fuller our blueprints will become from their input from their areas of experience and expertise. I have noticed this in the environmentalist movement…but we offer the step forward because we can encapsulate all the separate visions of the future into a grand design – a socialist society…and all the separate building blocks are constructed of concrete foundations of our economic system… which is our advantage over the green radicals. I know i will be shot down by the critics of creating a utopia. I know full well the arguments against projecting the present into a future we cannot forecast. Nevertheless we need to have more flesh on the bones.We have to increase the profile of our Production for Use committees studies and findings and we need to inject more importance and urgency into that committee. We have to offer alternative mechanisms to the market that people can envisage as practicable. We have to detail how aspects of capitalism can easily be adapted and transformed into democratic tools for people in socialism. And how prototypes and experimental models can be made applicable.We have to overcome the conservatism with a small c of workers who indeed fear change and worry about the most basic economic question…keeping their and their families bellies filled under a safe roof. If this is the case in a supposed secure stable society such as Scotland, just think how hundred-fold the problem is in those regions of the world suffering catastrophic misery where they imagine our standard and quality of life is something to aspire towards…relegating socialism to something "unreachable".Anyways something to debate and discuss upon once the referendum is done and dusted.
I don't think it is 'conservatism' so much as the big artillary of the bourgeoisie being directed at them. We'll put up prices. We'll make you poor. We'll make you unemployed. This is an object demonstration of how property society makes democracy impossible. If we were coming at them armed with a clear rebuttal: we're going to expropropriate you, then I think we'd be better protected.
Sadly, the Party has missed an opportunity with the Scottish referendum.As been pointed out there has been an increase in political activity across the board. When X-Factor and Scotlands dismal football league may have dominated discussions in the pubs and at work, for the past few months minds have been focused upon politics such as the meaning of nationalism and benefits or otherwise of various reforms. Pundits are expecting a record-breaking turn-out at the polls. On the streets there has been a return of people expressing and displaying their political views with badges and posters in windows.Disappointingly, i have heard a couple of members say they are fed-up and bored with all the fuss over the referendum rather than understanding we should have been seizing an opportunity to engage those people in debate while there exists a receptive mood for political discourse. I fully understand and sympathise with the reasons why we failed to make the most of this opportunity but if the result is yes or no, the moment has now passed and i doubt there will be another chance for a long time to discuss our views with a population who have chosen to on this issue to become political active. I have no confidence that anything has changed and believe disillusionment will lead workers lapsing into apathy once again.If there arises a future referendum on the EU, we should learn from the Scottish one and become much more involved in presenting the third option of spoiling the vote and/or abstention even if it requires sharing a platform with a few of our rivals. Our stickers were our singular success and that should be another thing to learn for future publicity campaigns. Several designs delivering different aspects of our case. Maybe they should supplement (or even surplant) our leaflets.
I don't think the accusation of bias against the BBC is fair. They struck me as being "too fair" from the point of view of the British ruling class who have an interest in Scotland not breaking away (as it will weaken them on the world stage) but I've just been listening to a local radio station in South West London on my way back from Clapham. The presenter said that if Scotland voted yes the first record he would play would be "The Road to Nowhere" and also remarked that the Union Jack looked ok without the blue Scottish part of it. (Of course it would still just be a rag on the end of a stick.) Talk about bias! But I don't think Radio Jackie can be heard in Scotland.
Done and dusted now.So we have 3,261 rejected ballots compared with nearly 2 million No and bit over 1 and 1/2 mllion Yes. (albeit the Highland region still to declare)But in our favour and against the anarchist argument is the turn-out 84%. Knock off perhaps 5% who have died, who are ill or various last-minute reasons unable to get to the poll since the electoral register was made and that climbs to maybe 90% which i think is unprecedented in UK history where voting is not legally compulsory as in some other nations.When people feel the importance and that their individual vote counts, they participate in the voting process. Apathy disappears and the so-called lumpen-proletariat place their names on the register. So if voting changes anything, they don't abolish it but people engage fully with it. Also neither can we discount the politicalisation of many of the volunteers in the Yes and No campaign that went beyond political party affiliation.Now we face a new wave of promises and reforms for the re-structuring of constitutional decision-making in the UK, which will be nationwide. Another opportunity for us to present our own socialist case that we shouldn't neglect.
Totally agree with all that you say Alan. An oppurtunity spurned but also a valuable lesson we "must" learn!
I think the first thing to do is to identify the lessons to be learned and discuss those for the appropriate answers. The risk, as i see it now, is that we simply move on, relegating the referendum experience to water under the bridge and not address the question of why out of 3 and half million votes, 85% of those entitled to cast them, "our" result was just 3,000-plus – do the maths to place our propaganda and presence in perspective.
alanjjohnstone wrote:The risk, as i see it now, is that we simply move on, relegating the referendum experience to water under the bridge and not address the question of why out of 3 and half million votes, 85% of those entitled to cast them, "our" result was just 3,000-plus – do the maths to place our propaganda and presence in perspective.That figure of 3429 may well have been considerably higher if comrades north of the border had made a greater effort at presenting our case. Instead the September EC receives an email from Glasgow Branch bemoaning the fact there wasn't enough time to organise distribution of the Party's statement on the referendum. The branch has got to be kidding. The referendum had been on the cards for well over two years which should have provided more than adequate time to organise appropriate activity. As you might say, Alan; another opportunity sadly missed.
i'm not sure recriminations helps, Gnome, to formulate future activity If local branches for various logistic reasons cannot function efficiently then we have to seek out alternatives to substitute and i think we had plenty of prior warning from the lack of activity in the EU elections that neither Glasgow or Edinburgh were capable of a vigourous publicity campaign.Involvement on social media could be increased if physically we are unable to get boots on the ground. Placing old fashion adverts in local press could have been done centrally. A letter writing crusade similar to the relative success we had in the EU elections may have been useful.But regardless i doubt there could have been a lot we could have done to change the vote but more could have been done to make lasting contact with folk on similar wave-length as ourselves on nationalism, etc.
The election was rigged https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUR-HgAtwtg&app=desktop
Actually, Glasgow branch weren't really expected to distrubute our press statement on the referendum. This was done by the election committee which sent it to all the daily papers in Scotland. It got a mention here (right at the end) if nowhere else.As to the referendum on the EU I can't see this generating enough interest to get over 90 percent of the population aged 16 or over to go and vote. In any case, it is not certain it will take place as it's a Tory election promise that would only be implemented in the unlikely event of the Tories getting an overall majority in next year's general election.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.