Russian Tensions
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Self-determination of the nations and self-determination of the peoples is the same irrational and nationalist concept created by Lenin on his Colonial and National Question, it was also completely bekunked by Rosa Luxembourg on the National Question, and it is all based on the same stupidity created by Lenin known as anti-imperialism, it is bourgeoise ideology wrapped in socialist phraseology, it is totally irrational because there are not common interest in all nations, and every nation is only a myth, and the concept of peoples is totally anachronist because every nation is divided in class interests.
The right-wingers created their own concepts and the leftwing adopted them as their own theory and then they become the mouthpiece of the capitalist class, and they always take sides in inter-class conflicts and they have been wrong all the time, and later on, the history prove that they are mistaken, as the case of the war in Vietnam, which they also called a war of self-determination of the peoples, or of the nations, and now the Vietcong is part of the ruling class of that country and they became the super-rich of that nation and they became the ally of their own ex enemies, and there are hundreds of cases which can be cited, including Cuba, and Nicaragua.
Robbo used the expression of false conscience, and it was the definition of ideology privately given by Frederich Engels, and Marx called distortion of the reality, and the expression used by Robbo is correct because nationalism and patriotism is a false conception or a false ideology which motivates workers of every nation to fight and die defending the interests of their own rulers and they are never liberated, on the contrary, it liberates a ruling class from the dominion and control of another ruling class.
The leftists also have blood in their own hands like the capitalist class because they have always called workers to die defending the interest of the capitalists, the best expression of a nation would be to call it a farm because all nations are just pieces of land for the production of profits for the capitalist class, peoples do not own anything and the so-called peoples do not have any determination, if peoples have determination why are they forced to go and fight for the capitalist class? In Ukraine, all-male citizens are forced to go and fight for the interest of the Ukrainian capitalist class, during WW2 and Vietnam it was the same case, poor workers were forced to fight, or to go jail and some were executed.
The message published in this thread does not bring anything new, it is only a repetition of the same slogans propagated for more than 75 years by the left of capital and the Leninists, I have been hearing the same illusions and fantasies for several decades
Rosa Luxembourg on the concept of Self-determination. She swept the floor with Lenin’s false conceptions and the Socia Democrats, and this article also debunks all the false conceptions of the Leninists and the leftists. This is not new, this is an old leftist religion that they repeat in every inter-class conflict. We have also debunked completely the concept of anti-imperialism and we have shown that Lenin was completely mistaken
https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1909/national-question/ch01.htm.
PS In regard to Kliman, he might be a good Economist, but he is not well versed in history and politics, and his article on self-determination (as well his pamphlet on anti Trumpism ) it is the same old Leninist religion repacked under different circumstances, they are sons and daughters of the wrong conceptions of Raya Dunayevskaya, and her ideas were completely bekunked by Paul Mattick
Anti-imperialism is not anti-capitalism. Nationalism and patriotism are reactionaries
Rosa Luxembourg and Nationalism. There are some leftist personalities who are well versed in Rosa Luxembourg’s works but they support nationalism, patriotism and the so-called self-determination of the nation which was a concept rejected by Luxembourg. They are ambivalent
“The Ukrainian military also reported Russian “disobedience” in the Okhtyrka district in the north east of Ukraine, where it said 300 Russian servicemen are refusing to carry out attacks.”
Here’s more On Luxemburg’s criticusm of the so-called “ right of nations to self-determination”:
https://www.worldsocialism.org/wsm/rosa-luxemburg-and-the-national-question/
Here’s a couple of quotes from her:
‘A “right of nations” which is valid for all countries and all times is nothing more than a metaphysical cliche of the type of “rights of man” and “rights of the citizen”.
When we speak of the “right of nations to self-determination”, we are using the concept of the “nation”, as a homogeneous social and political entity . . . In a class society, “the nation” as a homogeneous sociopolitical entity does not exist. Rather, there exist within each nation, classes with antagonistic interests and “rights”.’
There is also a Spanish version for those interested in reading in the Spanish language
https://www.worldsocialism.org/wsm/rosa-luxemburgo-y-la-cuestion-nacional-2/
This is an absurd statement on Lenin, and this is part of the recipe for the support of the self-determination of the MI, and its variations. Lenin was Leninist all the time. They rejected Lenin vanguard party ( originally from the Jacobin and the Second International ) but they kept all the distorted and absusrd conceptions of Lenin and Leon Trotsky
https://www.marxists.org/archive/dunayevskaya/works/phil-rev/dunayev3.htm
The Palestinians do not have a nation but they are surely speaking coherently when they call for the self determination of the Palestinian people, and it’s not hard to figure out what they mean. When Ukrainians call for “self-determination” they are merely asserting their right to live in a place which they regard as their own, and having the right to choose their own government rather than having one imposed on them by Putin. Arguments about contradictions in the use of terms like nation and nationalism and national self-determination are arguments about the use of concepts and provide no serious foothold of criticism when making practical judgements about the conflict in Ukraine
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The Zionists also claim self-determination of the Jewish ‘peoples’. Both Nations, Palestinian and Israeli are also myths and Palestine is just a subdivision of the Ottoman empire. Before being influenced by the reactionary nationalism, Jewish, Christians, and Muslims lived together for more than 900 years in peace and harmony in Muslim territory. There is not any relationship between government and democracyThe USA Afro Americans also claimed self-determination and they claimed that part of the Southern territory of the USA belonged to them, and it was known as the black belt. Marx wrote about the Jewish question, but he could have also written about the USA black African question
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Belt_in_the_American_South.
The Mexican African also claimed that they are a nation that was called the Nation of Aztlan
The lie of the American innocence.
For those who only scan media headlines, this example of the Guardian “live” header is an example of relaying a false impression.
“humanitarian convoy seized near Mariupol, says Zelenskiy, as US claims more than 2,000 children ‘kidnapped’ by Russian forces”
Neither assertion is at all related.
The “kidnapping” is the evacuation of children from the war zone of DPR and LPR to safety. A humanitarian act.
Nothing to do with a convoy where the drivers and escorts have been detained by Russians, perhaps being the fact that they were not civilians but Ukrainian military personnel. Who knows the reason? But no civilian evacuees were detained, it seems.
Both sides are lying and distorting the reality, none of them can be trusted, even more, some so called independent news center can not be completely trusted
The Bolsheviks were closer to the Robespierrists than to Marx, and these
precursors of Bolshevism, like Saint-Just, sound very much like them in the “self-determination” of republics (“peoples”). They invented the language of patriotism and its form today.
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