Russian Tensions
November 2024 › Forums › General discussion › Russian Tensions
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March 18, 2022 at 2:45 pm #227953AnonymousInactive
Was the refusal to unload Russian oil barrels the result of class consciousness, or more the result of pro-Ukraine nationalism on the part of the British workers, in solidarity not with fellow workers abroad, but with UK media urging the backing of the Kyiv govt?
March 18, 2022 at 3:17 pm #227955ALBKeymasterI was going to ask the same good question. I would even say that that action was reprehensible as stopping imports of oil from Russia will harm workers by increasing their cost of living.
March 18, 2022 at 4:16 pm #227956AnonymousInactiveMassive support of young people for Putin at Moscow Stadium today.
Numbers drown the anti-war side.
Orthodox Church has a patron saint of nuclear weapons.
March 18, 2022 at 4:18 pm #227957AnonymousInactiveSearch Results
Featured snippet from the web
St. Seraphim of Sarov
According to the Jamestown Foundation’s excellent Eurasia Daily Monitor, the Russian Department of Defense’s 12th Directorate, which is responsible for Russia’s nuclear weapons, has been assigned a patron saint by the Russian Orthodox Church: St. Seraphim of Sarov.21 Sept 2007
https://www.duckofminerva.com › p…March 18, 2022 at 4:27 pm #227959AnonymousInactiveMarch 18, 2022 at 4:35 pm #227960alanjjohnstoneKeymaster“Was the refusal to unload Russian oil barrels the result of class consciousness, or more the result of pro-Ukraine nationalism on the part of the British workers, in solidarity not with fellow workers abroad, but with UK media urging the backing of the Kyiv govt?”
Right now, the sympathies of the working class are predominantly with their Ukrainian brothers and sisters. Perhaps also with those Russian dissidents protesting.
Our own position is very much a minority one
“We condemn both sides and denounce the senseless killing of our fellow workers. History shows that in times of war, working-class interests are never served by workers throwing in their lot with nationalist or other political leaders of capitalism”
We should acknowledge that it is Ukrainian fellow workers who are cannon fodder for Zelenskyy and pawns to be sacrificed for Putin
Whatever the motive, it has more effect than Extinction Rebellion anti-petrol station campaign.
March 18, 2022 at 4:46 pm #227961alanjjohnstoneKeymasterPutin does a stadium rally to boost morale.
I read the reports on BBC and Guardian, and they use the same sceptical quotes from participants to question its credibility, which raised suspicions to me that editors are following an unspoken agreed line. Surely out of tens of thousands in the crowds, many different quotes would have been gathered.
And was the tv coverage sabotaged?
As for an appropriate slogan what about. “Don’t die for capitalism, Live for socialism”
- This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by alanjjohnstone.
March 18, 2022 at 4:54 pm #227962ALBKeymasterPutin is an Orthodox Christian with the mentality of old-fashioned Panslavist. In fact he is an old-fashioned Panslavist who regards the liberal West as corrupt and decadent. The trouble is that some leftists still seem to think that Russia is the land of international socialism which it hasn’t even (falsely) claimed to be for over 30 years.
March 18, 2022 at 4:59 pm #227964AnonymousInactiveThere are some personalities and organizations who are opposing the sales and sending of weapons to Ukraine but they are not socialists, or they are not against the war or having class consciousness, they support Putin and some of those groups are white nationalists that are reactionaries as the Russian and Ukraine ruling class, and nationalists on both sides. This war is showing many contradictions and we must watch them very carefully
March 18, 2022 at 5:07 pm #227965AnonymousInactive1) Several documents taken from the files of the KGB showed that the Russian Orthodox Church supported Joseph Stalin during WW 2 and they support Soviet nationalism and the so-called patriotic war, and Stalin was viewed as the apostle of God to overthrow Nazism
2) The Castroists and the Chavistas are supporting Putin, and some leftists do not want to understand that socialism never existed in the Soviet Union and still they have some romantic or nostalgic view about Russia, and Putin is going to restore the old Soviet Union
March 18, 2022 at 5:35 pm #227967ALBKeymasterIn that article on the arrest of the Kononovich brothers in the Peoples Voice which is the organ of the American “Communist” Party there is an interesting passage:
“After the Soviet Union fell apart in 1990-91, the Ukrainian government abandoned the collective farm system that had defined socialist agriculture in the USSR. The former collectively-owned land was distributed among the members of the farms, however, and bans on further sales were put in place to protect small farmers from being swallowed up by corporate industrial giants.
The Zelensky government reversed that longstanding policy in 2019, leading to fears that Ukrainian farmland—which takes up as much space as France and Germany combined—would be gobbled up by foreign agribusiness giants.”This looks like opening the way for new cohort of oligarchs, Western as well as Ukrainian.
March 18, 2022 at 6:46 pm #227968AnonymousInactiveThe cpusa supported Stalin all the time and they spread the wrong conception that the land expropriation by the state was socialism and it was just another capitalist nationalization
March 18, 2022 at 6:54 pm #227969AnonymousInactiveThis is true, Movim.
The Church is the only institution that rejected destalinization.
Stalin, a former seminarian, knew the power of religion among soldiers, and he set up the Moscow Patriarchate again, which had dissolved due to the Revolution. The Tsarist emigre Church in exile did not accept the Patriarchate as legitimate, but had their own synod, based first in Germany and then in the US.
Within Russia there was also a dissident underground Orthodox Church that rejected the Patriarchate.March 18, 2022 at 6:56 pm #227970AnonymousInactiveYet it was a Russian Communist Party delegate in the Duma last month who opposed the invasion.
March 18, 2022 at 7:00 pm #227971AnonymousInactivePutin looks upbeat and jolly, and I think he has already saved any face and isn’t worried about that now, whatever happens. His support is massive.
Were he, though, to use a nuclear weapon in Ukraine, he would lose that support, and he must know that too.
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