Russian Tensions
December 2024 › Forums › General discussion › Russian Tensions
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- This topic has 5,318 replies, 40 voices, and was last updated 5 days, 6 hours ago by Citizenoftheworld.
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March 16, 2022 at 8:47 am #227798AnonymousInactiveMarch 16, 2022 at 8:48 am #227799AnonymousInactiveMarch 16, 2022 at 8:52 am #227800AnonymousInactiveMarch 16, 2022 at 10:12 am #227801rodshawParticipant
Acccording to a BBC report Abramovich once swindled the Russian Government out of $2.7bn in an oil deal and they considered charging him with fraud:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60736185
Rather than sanctioning him, you’d think the UK would want to reward him.March 16, 2022 at 10:26 am #227802robbo203ParticipantRegarding the view of the other comrade not on this forum:
“I have to say I personally don’t agree at all this has been somehow started by the West, whatever their faults”
Yes, that’s technically correct but only in a proximate sense. It is also true that the West has contributed significantly to the situation in which the Putin regime felt it necessary for its own reasons to invade Ukraine.
At the time of the break up of the Soviet Union, there was an understanding, if not a binding agreement, that NATO would not move into Eastern Europe. Nato disregarded this and moved eastwards. Similarly, there is clear evidence of Western influence and support for the 2014 Maidan coup which toppled the then pro-Russia Ukrainian government that had initially been favourable towards the West but found its path to closer integration obstructed by the harsh neoliberal policies Western powers wanted to impose on it. The new pro-Western government that was installed actively discriminated against the Russian-speaking minority precipitating the Donbas situation, a major factor leading up to the invasion.
It is very important that we should not be seen to let Western capitalist powers off the hook, in the same way as we should not be seen to be sympathetic in the slightest to the brutal capitalist regime of Vladimir Putin. Both sides in this unfolding tragedy must be vigorously attacked for their respective if different contributions to making it happen.
And also we should not be seen to siding with those Left-wing fantasists who characterise this as some sort of war of “national liberation” and urge that Ukrainian workers take up arms against the “Russian invaders” – Russian workers in uniform who have been similarly duped by the obnoxious Putin regime. Suicidal heroics in the name of a pointless bourgeois “national liberation” will get you nowhere except the cold comfort of an early grave.
Leftists who think like this and want to betray Ukrainian workers for the sake of a Ukrainian capitalist state should really be consistent and honest about what they are calling for and align themselves more explicitly with the NATO camp that would be supplying these workers with the arms they would need to do what these leftists are urging them to do
March 16, 2022 at 10:32 am #227803alanjjohnstoneKeymasterTalk of a possible peace settlement is now being reported in the media.
Zelenskyy said late Tuesday that “difficult” diplomatic talks with Moscow appear to be moving in a positive direction.
Zelenskyy said that “the positions during the negotiations already sound more realistic”
“All wars end in agreements,” said Zelenskyy
Zelenskyy said in a speech Tuesday that his country “must recognize” that NATO membership is not a feasible goal
“For years we heard about open doors, but we understand that we cannot enter,” Zelenskyy said
- This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by alanjjohnstone.
March 16, 2022 at 10:48 am #227805AnonymousInactiveBut how can he yield on Crimea and the Donbas without political suicide and the other nationalists replacing him?
March 16, 2022 at 10:50 am #227807AnonymousInactiveI seem to remember him being elected on the ticket of improving relations with Moscow (?)
Wouldn’t any treaty also necessitate the part suppression at least of the ultra-nationalist elements?
March 16, 2022 at 10:59 am #227809AnonymousInactiveMarch 16, 2022 at 12:14 pm #227810ALBKeymasterOf course Russia is opposed to Finland and Sweden joining NATO. Like Ukraine that would bring NATO right up to a long stretch to the Russian frontier. Under present circumstances it’s unlikely to happen.
Ironically, the “peace deal” that is said to be being with discussed between Russia and Ukraine is said to be considering that Ukraine should have armed forces but be neutral …. “like Sweden”.
March 16, 2022 at 12:20 pm #227811AnonymousInactiveBut the workers in Finland are clamoring for NATO membership, now 62%. How long will the govt hold out?
March 16, 2022 at 12:53 pm #227812ALBKeymasterI think “clamouring” is rather an exaggeration. They have just ticked a box when asked. The government won’t be swayed by a mere snap opinion poll. They will easily be able to resist taking such a risky departure from the status quo.
March 16, 2022 at 1:15 pm #227813alanjjohnstoneKeymasterA model of legally binding security guarantees that would offer Ukraine protection in the event of a future attack is “on the negotiating table” at talks between Kyiv and Moscow, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said.
“The negotiations are not easy for obvious reasons,” Lavrov told RBC news. “But nevertheless, there is some hope of reaching a compromise. Neutral status is now being seriously discussed seriously along, of course, with security guarantees. This is what is now being discussed at the talks. There are absolutely specific wordings and in my view, the sides are close to agreeing on them.”
We can expect a very complicated worded ceasefire agreement.
But remember the Vietnam peace talks in Paris began in 1968 and took to 1973 to be signed. And it was almost immediately broken.
March 16, 2022 at 1:42 pm #227814AnonymousInactiveYes. The native Americans can tell us all about “forked-tongue diplomacy.” (!)
March 16, 2022 at 2:03 pm #227815DJPParticipantTerrible commentary here from the Marxist-Humanist Initiative. Hadn’t realised they fall for that “national self-determination” stuff so much. (If they care about that then surely they should be calling for independence for Dombas as well as the victory for Ukraine at the same time)
Editorial: Ukraine Fights for National Self-Determination Against Russian Imperialism
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