Russian Tensions
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One of the problems with the ‘peace at all cost’ argument (i.e. Russia ‘winning’) that some are touting is the long-term ‘totalitarianising’ effect of this and the consequent closing off of any possibility of the free exchange of ideas which is essential for the socialist case to be heard and spread.
To which the considered response on here seems to be ‘Nah, Russia won’t do anything.’
Comparison with Sudetenland in 1938 is not ‘childish’, it’s an alarming historical parallel. Giving an expansionist totalitarian state everything it wants certainly risks emboldening that state to make further grabs, especially given the disunity of opposing states.
That then becomes an argument to sustain one war in order to prevent a much bigger one, an impossible dilemma we can denounce but capitalist states actually have to deal with. I follow this thread and I’ve been astonished at the vitriol thrown at western politicians as ‘warmongers’ while Putin and his cronies have pretty much got a free pass. A casual reader could draw their own conclusions about the claim that we don’t take sides.
This is one of those lose-lose situations of capitalism’s own making. We as socialists shouldn’t pretend we have any solution, except to abolish the system.
I follow this thread and I’ve been astonished at the vitriol thrown at western politicians as ‘warmongers’ while Putin and his cronies have pretty much got a free pass. A casual reader could draw their own conclusions about the claim that we don’t take sides.
_____________________________Not sure that’s the case at all. The obnoxious Putin regime has been quite frequently attacked on this forum and rightly so. The problem is the dominant narrative in the part of the world we happen to be in is overwhelmingly pro-Ukrainian. Just look at the MSM every day coming out with its delusional pro-nationalist arguments in support of the Zelensky regime. If there is an apparent imbalance in the commentary on the Ukraine situation, it probably reflects these real-world circumstances
Obviously, we oppose both sides in this war and the war itself. The sooner it ends the better!
Indeed we do. But now I am worried about Putin’s intentions.
I don’t see him moving into the Kiev-ruled Ukraine while Americans are there removing minerals. I do wonder why he doesn’t want the minerals himself, which will be taken from under his nose.
I do see him wanting a pro-Russian president in Kiev (whom I don’t see the Ukrainians voting for!) and also I do see him then taking Moldova (which will reinforce the West’s narrative and make them more nervous and probably pre-empting war).
Would he attack NATO Europe if France and Britain put troops in?
I don’t know.
”One of the problems with the ‘peace at all cost’ argument (i.e. Russia ‘winning’) that some are touting is the long-term ‘totalitarianising’ effect of this and the consequent closing off of any possibility of the free exchange of ideas which is essential for the socialist case to be heard and spread.”
What does this mean? What are implications of “peace but not at any price”?
That we should abandon our policy (principled gesture, if you like) of calling for a stop to killings and destruction immediately and unconditionally in order to save working class lives from being sacrificed in an armed conflict that doesn’t concern them, just because in the particular case of Ukraine it would leave the Russia state in control of nominally Ukrainian territory?
That we should be prepared to pay the price (in terms of working class deaths and injuries) of continuing the war a little longer?
That we can’t call Starmer, Macron and the others “warmongers” for wanting to keep the war going till the Ukrainian state is in a better bargaining position?
That we should be prepared to countenance supporting a war against “totalitarianism”?
Any of these would be a betrayal of our long and proud tradition of opposing all wars on the ground that they are not worth the shedding of a single drop of working class blood.
Ireland will send troops, alongside Starmer’s, and so will Turkey. 20 countries have signed up.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/03/04/ireland-european-peacekeeping-force-ukraine/
Here’s what we said on the outbreak of the WW2 where one of the sides was more “totalitarian” than Russia today:
“The Socialist Party of Great Britain is fully aware of the sufferings of German workers under Nazi rule, and wholeheartedly supports the efforts of workers everywhere to secure democratic rights against the powers of suppression, but the history of the past decades shows the futility of war as a means of safeguarding democracy.”
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