Russian Tensions
March 2025 › Forums › General discussion › Russian Tensions
Tagged: to manipulate
- This topic has 5,530 replies, 40 voices, and was last updated 3 hours, 49 minutes ago by
ALB.
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March 1, 2025 at 3:37 pm #257219
adri
ParticipantIt’s rather disappointing that the Russo-Ukrainian conflict, especially for liberals and some other leftists, is now becoming a matter of “Trump vs Ukraine,” as if it were ever that simple. I don’t understand how difficult it is for these people to read about things like Crimeans’ views on being “liberated” by Ukraine, Ukrainians’ acts of resistance against the war and the Ukrainian regime’s forced mobilization, the policies of the post-Maidan regime and the hostility towards them by people in the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine, etc. They only see that Trump wants the mineral resources in Ukraine and automatically assume that Zelensky and the post-Maidan government are innocent saints. They just don’t approach the matter seriously at all. If you now criticize the Ukrainian regime, then you risk being lumped into the Trump camp. The disastrous meeting yesterday, which I have a feeling was partly planned by the Trump team, certainly helped to promote this false dichotomy.
Incidentally, the propaganda expression “save Ukraine” sort of reminds me of Chomsky’s critcisms of the expression “support our troops”:
The point of public relations slogans like “Support our troops” is that they don’t mean anything. They mean as much as whether you support the people in Iowa. Of course, there was an issue. The issue was, “do you support our policy?” But you don’t want people to think about that issue. That’s the whole point of good propaganda. You want to create a slogan that nobody’s going to be against, and everybody’s going to be for. Nobody knows what it means, because it doesn’t mean anything. Its crucial value is that it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something: “do you support our policy?”
March 2, 2025 at 11:30 am #257223Thomas_More
ParticipantWithout US support also means without US restraint. What’s to stop Starmer now authorising Zelensky to use ever more long-range British missiles, without Washington to rein him in? To even send in combat troops?
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This reply was modified 2 weeks, 2 days ago by
Thomas_More.
March 2, 2025 at 2:59 pm #257226Thomas_More
ParticipantWhat makes them think Russia will allow enemy states to send troops?
March 2, 2025 at 4:04 pm #257227Thomas_More
ParticipantThe original Leninist party at least not jumping on Starmer’s wagon.
March 3, 2025 at 6:24 am #257232robbo203
ParticipantInteresting commentary. It rather suggests that Zelensky has scewed himself and his cause through his incaution and manipulative tactics
https://www.aaronmate.net/p/zelenskys-hostility-to-peace-triggers
March 3, 2025 at 5:07 pm #257257Thomas_More
ParticipantDeleted.
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This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by
Thomas_More.
March 3, 2025 at 5:20 pm #257258Thomas_More
ParticipantThat is a great link, Robbo.
March 3, 2025 at 5:43 pm #257259Roberto
Participanthttps://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/ 03/03/rheu-m03.html
March 3, 2025 at 5:49 pm #257260Thomas_More
ParticipantSays page does not exist.
March 3, 2025 at 5:59 pm #257261Roberto
ParticipantMarch 3, 2025 at 6:20 pm #257263Thomas_More
ParticipantThanks.
March 3, 2025 at 6:56 pm #257264Roberto
ParticipantSocialists and class-conscious workers understand that Trump’s pacifism is strategic and that he represents the sectors of capitalists who want to focus on China. At this moment, he seeks to align with Russia as a counterbalance to China and in the regions where they have influence, etc. However, for our brothers in Ukraine and Russia, this peace—at least for now—is better than the continuation of this massacre.
March 3, 2025 at 7:04 pm #257265Thomas_More
ParticipantYes.
Starmer et al are talking as though they’ll be allowed to send troops to Ukraine. They won’t. If they try unilaterally, they’ll incur Trump’s wrath as well as Putin’s. Well, there won’t be a peace deal if they do.Is that what Starmer’s hoping then with his theatrics? To scupper any deal?
March 3, 2025 at 7:11 pm #257266Thomas_More
Participanthttps://www.ft.com/content/dc9c51ab-03cb-47ba-ad0a-09c4deed9b50
Restarting Nordstream 2?
March 3, 2025 at 8:11 pm #257267robbo203
Participanthttps://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/03/03/rheu-m03.html
The sight of that obnoxious capitalist warmonger, Bernie Sanders, makes me want to reach for the nearest bucket. He couldn’t care a toss about the lives of workers lost on both sides of the obscene capitalist war….
I really don’t know who is worse. People like him or Trump
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