Russian Tensions

November 2024 Forums General discussion Russian Tensions

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  • #254128
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    But he has now said that that would be the case if Ukraine does, and that NATO would then be considered officially by him as in direct war with Russia. That’s not saying he will hit Ukraine alone with the missiles but NATO countries too.
    And with Starmer pushing for it, Biden is likely to allow it, as long as the missiles are British and not American.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/9/26/putin-outlines-new-rules-for-russian-use-of-vast-nuclear-arsenal

    Al Jazeera:
    “..by describing such assaults on Russia as a “joint attack”, Putin has effectively laid the ground for Moscow to argue that it could target Ukraine’s nuclear-armed allies – the US, UK and France – directly, on their soil, if Kyiv attacks Russia in ways that the Kremlin concludes are a “critical threat” to the country’s sovereignty.”

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Thomas_More.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Thomas_More.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Thomas_More.
    #254133
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Here is how the floated change is analysed by a Russian pro-government outlet:

    https://sputnikglobe.com/20240926/whats-behind-putins-move-to-change-russias-nuclear-doctrine-1120297331.html

    It seems to be a case of Russia upping in ante to try to deter the other side from taking some action.

    Note the bit at the end about a US,British or French satellite being shot down rather than a direct attack on their territory.

    Incidentally I can’t see Biden allowing Britain to go it alone, but I can imagine Sir Kyiv Starmer being so reckless and warmongering as to what to do so. After all, just as Reeves has declared Labour is the “party of business” so Starmer has declared that it is “the party of NATO”.

    #254134
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    But Kyiv Starmer and Zealolensky are obviously wanting to goad Pootin beyond that point.

    #254136
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    Will China restrain Putin on his threats?

    #254137
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    ” Washington doesn’t appear ready to take the gloves off entirely and allow Ukraine to target Russia’s airfields with long-range U.S. missiles quite yet — though it may withdraw restrictions on the U.K.’s Storm Shadows, which use U.S. technology.”

    the British might be allowed to proceed without U.S. objection,”
    (Politico)

    https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-ukraine-nuclear-plants-energy-war-joe-biden-united-states-nato/

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Thomas_More.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Thomas_More.
    #254140
    Thomas_More
    Participant
    #254141
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Just realised that that dates from October 2022 and anyway he said could rather than will. I don’t know if he is still saying that today in the current situation.

    In any event, this is the worst Labour government that there has ever been. And from day one.

    #254142
    Ozymandias
    Participant

    Now it seems Russia are arming the Houthi Rebellion amid secret talks with Iran. I know WWIII is unthinkable but things feel like a slow crescendo right now. I still maintain the Capitalist Class would never orchestrate the destruction of their own playground. Surely to God?
    Speaking of him upstairs Millions of Evangelicals are rubbing their hands in glee. To hasten the apocalypse so their big pal Jesus comes back. This is the situation we are in.

    #254143
    DJP
    Participant

    I think if there ever was a nuclear war it would more likely be because of a mistake, like this one which was narrowly averted.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24280831

    #254144
    Bijou Drains
    Participant

    “In any event, this is the worst Labour government that there has ever been. And from day one.”

    Not so sure about that, it’s a pretty high bar to get over

    #254335
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/10/08/orban-europe-needs-peace-but-eu-leaders-want-war

    I still don’t understand why the EU member states as a whole want to continue the war and to keep giving billions to Kiev, when, in 2021, Germany especially was so excited about Nordstream and not so happy about Biden’s interference leading it to be scrapped and pushing Europe back into the Cold War. Now the EU is almost totally gung-ho with NATO.

    And we see the leftist parties are the pro-war parties; the rightist ones calling for a ceasefire.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Thomas_More.
    #254430
    ALB
    Keymaster

    One by of the points in Zelensky’s so-called peace plan is:

    “Joint protection by the US and the EU of Ukraine’s critical natural resources and joint use of their economic potential.”

    This has led those supporting Russia to investigate what these resources might be:

    https://sputnikglobe.com/20241017/what-is-known-about-ukraines-critical-metals-that-west-is-eager-to-obtain-1120585038.html

    US Senator Lindsey Graham: Ukraine sits on ‘trillion dollars worth of minerals that could be good for our economy’

    I don’t think this will be why the West is so keen to incorporate Ukraine into its sphere of influence and, in any event, in resisting this it doesn’t seem to be Russia’s intention to annex the whole of Ukraine.

    In any event, an end to the war freezing the current line of contact would leave most of these resources still in Ukraine and so mean the West could still access them. Russia might even accept this as long as Ukraine doesn’t join NATO.

    It seems more like Zelensky offering the West something he knows will appeal to them. Senator Graham too is speaking a language capitalists will understand so as convince them to support for US policy there. As a Republican he may even be trying to influence Trump who has been expressing a different view.

    #254431
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    So will Russia accept a truncated Ukraine joining NATO, if Russia keeps Crimea and the Donbas?

    #254433
    ALB
    Keymaster

    I wouldn’t have thought so but they might accept a truncated Ukraine joining the EU (if the EU wanted to take on a basket case).

    In fact that might even have been part of a compromise solution before Russia invaded but the US was so insistent on expanding NATO yet further East to try to get the better of Russia, so provoking the Russian invasion (in a failed attempt to instal a pro-Russian government in Kiev).

    #254434
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vkqwe9wwdo

    Appears Pyongyang is sending troops after all.

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