Russian Tensions

November 2024 Forums General discussion Russian Tensions

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  • #226776
    ALB
    Keymaster

    The next move is up to the Western capitalist bloc. Russia’s move to recognise the two breakaway statelets is not the famous invasion. At the moment it is not even the “minor incursion”. The sanctions that the West impose will tell us what they consider this move to be. The initial US reaction seems rather mild:

    “US to continue to pursue diplomacy with Russia until ‘tanks roll’, official says

    Russian president Vladimir Putin’s decision to send troops he called “peacemakers” into breakaway regions of Ukraine has not as yet constituted a further invasion that would trigger a broader sanctions package, a Biden administration official told Reuters.

    The United States will continue to pursue diplomacy with Russia until “tanks roll,” another official said.

    Putin’s recognition of the Donetsk People’s Republic and Luhansk People’s Republic in eastern Ukraine as independent and his order to send in troops was met with widespread condemnation from the west.

    However, one administration official told Reuters sending Russian troops into the separatist regions was not a departure from what Russia had done already, which was why it did not trigger broader sanctions.

    Speaking to reporters on a conference call, the official said:

    ‘This isn’t a further invasion since it’s territory that they’ve already occupied.
    Russian troops moving into Donbas would not itself be a new step. Russia has had forces in the Donbas region for the past eight years… They are currently now making decisions to do this in a more overt and … open way.
    Russia continues to escalate this crisis that it created in the first place. We’ll continue to pursue diplomacy until the tanks roll, but we are under no illusions about what is likely to come next.’”

    The Ukrainian President has said the same about Russian troops already being there for years and that this is just legalising the existing situation.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by ALB.
    #226779
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/harvard-economist-former-obama-adviser-035748369.html

    Harvard economist Jason Furman said Russia’s economy is ‘unimportant’ except for its gas resources, The New York Times reported.

    His comments come as the US and Europe prepare heavy sanctions on Russia if it invades Ukraine.

    But there are concerns that their plans to punish Moscow will penalize the rest of the world too.

    Russia’s economy is “incredibly unimportant in the global economy except for oil and gas,” Jason Furman, Harvard economist and ex-adviser to former President Barack Obama, told The New York Times.

    “It’s basically a big gas station,” he said.

    #226780
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    What I have also noticed is that the media and politicians are now describing the mental state of Putin. They called his speech ‘rambling’, they called him ‘paranoid’.

    The next level will probably be to depict him as a mad leader.

    #226781
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    “..we are
    under no illusions about what is likely to come
    next.’”

    Ominous.

    #226782
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Interesting short article here about the two breakaway republics.

    I hadn’t realised that Lugansk was a city of 1.5 million inhabitants.

    Just checked. I am not sure that figure is correct but it is still a big city.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by ALB.
    #226784
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Looks as if, following Truss and Ben Wally, another UK minister — the minister of health Javid — has made a gaffe, his being to declare that the invasion has begun:

    “The health secretary told Sky News:
    ‘We have seen that he has recognised these breakaway eastern regions in Ukraine and from the reports we can already tell that he has sent in tanks and troops.
    From that you can conclude that the invasion of Ukraine has begun.’”

    If it really has then we can expect the full crippling sanctions to be imposed on Russia. Can we? But if the full range of sanctions are not imposed we can assume that NATO does not consider that the invasion has begun.

    #226785
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Johnson has clarified the situation. According to him the invasion has not begun:

    “Boris Johnson has said.
    ‘We will immediately institute a package of economic sanctions. This is, I should stress, just the first barrage of UK economic sanctions against Russia, because we expect I’m afraid that there is more Russian irrational behaviour to come … [The sanctions] will hit Russia very hard, and there is a lot more that we are going to do in the event of an invasion.’

    #226786
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    But WHY do states such as Germany and France go along with it? They must be afraid of Washington, since they are opposing their own capitalist interests.

    #226787
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Lithuanians so convinced of war that mothers are in tears there.
    (Aljazeera, “Witness”). ???

    #226788
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    By Autonomous Action, a group I previously did not know.”Autonomous Action” says it has local groups in nearly 15 cities of Russia and Ukraine.

    https://avtonom.org/en/news/against-annexations-and-imperial-aggression

    https://avtonom.org/en/author_columns/why-should-we-support-ukraine

    ‘We are anarchists and we are against any borders between nations. But we are against this annexation, because it only establishes new borders, and the decision on this is made solely by the authoritarian leader—Vladimir Putin. This is an act of imperialist aggression by Russia. We have no illusions about the Ukrainian state, but it is clear to us that it is not the main aggressor in this story—this is not a confrontation between two equal evils.’

    #226789
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Nord Stream 2 impact

    ‘Other producing nations say they will not be able to provide substantial amounts of replacement gas if sanctions against Russia do affect Western Europe.’

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/22/what-was-said-at-gas-exporting-countries-forum

    #226790
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Exactly. So, WHY does mainland Europe tow the NATO line?

    #226791
    Wez
    Participant

    ‘But WHY do states such as Germany and France go along with it? They must be afraid of Washington, since they are opposing their own capitalist interests.’

    As we keep trying to explain to you – the ruling classes of any nation state, such as Germany & France, are not one homogeneous group with identical economic interests. Capital is global so the interests of one capitalist is not identical with that of another. This has to be balanced with the necessity of preserving the illusion of ‘National interests’ for the working class so dividing them against each other politically.

    #226804
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    We have always said that all nations are only a myth. Under globalized capital they are a bigger myth, and “peoples” continue believing that they have a fatherland

    #226828
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Can we call nations these two stateless pieces of land? It would be like calling a nation to the area controlled by the Zapatistas

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