Russian Tensions
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Notice All-in hasn’t denied his friendship with the CIA? Come on All-in, fess up. Don’t keep Bojo’s half brain waiting.
“Serious question. Which side are you talking about? The Russian military or the Ukrainian military? It could be either by your logic.”
I don’t know how much clearer to say it. T-H-E W-A-F-F-E-N S-S. Clear enough now?
“But the socialist approach of refusing to fight in capitalism´s wars is still the ONLY approach that makes any sense.”
You ain’t a socialist and don’t speak for socialists. How did socialists stop the SS? They defeated them on the battlefield. You’d stop them with your teenage urges I guess. Lol
“BS. The Waffen SS may have been defeated in battle but has the ideology it espoused disappeared?”
Erm and the Holocaust and most of WW2 ended. Real world consequences resulted from that defeat you dopey twit.
“Serious question. Which side are you talking about? The Russian military or the Ukrainian military? It could be either by your logic.”
I don’t know how much clearer to say it. T-H-E W-A-F-F-E-N S-S. Clear enough now?”
_____________________LOL it seems you wouldn’t know how to argue your way out of a paper bag, let alone cope with a serious debate with seasoned socialists. Let´s run through this argument once again, kid, so your simple mind might just be able to wrap itself around the rudiments…
You don’t obviously literally think the Waffen SS is involved in the Ukrainian conflict – or perhaps you do seeing as you’re such a “dopey twit”, you’ve might have got the wars and the dates mixed up. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this occasion and assume that you are only using the expression, “Waffen SS”, as code for “Nazi”. In your little mind, the Ukraine conflict is all about the wonderful humanitarian Russian military doing its “duty” and facing up to the evil fascist regime of Zelinsky and its degenerate Western backers.
So I ask you once again for the umpteenth time- you’ve constantly evaded this question, haven´t you? – what is the difference between the Zelinsky regime and the Putin regime that would allow you to say the former is a fascist regime and the latter is not? Both regimes are remarkably similar in their political character. Yes yes yes I know the Ukrainian armed forces have self-identifying fascists (Banderites) fighting for it. But so has the Russian side (and as I have pointed out, Putin himself is an admirer of the Russian fascist ideologue, Iván Aleksándrovich Ilyín).
But having some fascists supporting your side does not necessarily make your regime a fascist one, does it? You could much more plausibly argue that the repellent authoritarian regime of Zelensky (a Jew, BTW) is simply making use of the relatively small number of overt fascists in the ranks of its military. After all, fascists are ultra-zealous nationalists and the regime has an interest in promoting the putrid ideology of nationalism -as do you
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“You ain’t a socialist and don’t speak for socialists. How did socialists stop the SS? They defeated them on the battlefield.”
………………How am I not a socialist? I advocate for, and fully endorse, Marxian socialism: the common ownership and democratic control of the means of wealth production. You don´t. You are a craven supporter of Russian capitalism. Your problem is you haven’t got a clue what socialism is. I imagine you think the Nazis were socialist cuz they called themselves the “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”…
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“Erm and the Holocaust ended. Real world consequences resulted from that defeat you dopey twit.
————–LOL, this from the dopey twit who characterizes the present war as a fight against the “Waffen SS” yet tells us that “Waffen SS” was defeated in 1945. You are endlessly amusing in your rank stupidity, TS
“You don’t obviously literally think the Waffen SS is involved in the Ukrainian conflict”
Fuck you’re dumb. I’m literally asking you about the Waffen SS of WW2. How would you have stopped them? Your answer: teenage urges. Lol
“But I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this occasion and assume that you are only using the expression, “Waffen SS”, as code for “Nazi”.”
No, you moron. I’m literally asking you about the Waffen SS!
“In your little mind, the Ukraine conflict is all about the wonderful humanitarian Russian military doing its “duty” and facing up to the evil fascist regime of Zelinsky and its degenerate Western backers.”
Says the smooth brained dope who can’t figure out a question about the Waffen SS is actually a question about the Waffen SS. Lol. So, I’ll ask it again. How you gonna stop the SS from their rampage? (teenage urges aren’t gonna cut it.)
“So I ask you once again for the umpteenth time- you’ve constantly evaded this question, haven´t you? – what is the difference between the Zelinsky regime and the Putin regime”
(Yawn) I’ve never evaded the question and answered it numerous times already already.
“Yes yes yes I know the Ukrainian armed forces have self-identifying fascists (Banderites) fighting for it. But so has the Russian side”
No, Russia does not have fascist battalions as does Ukraine. It does not set aside national holidays, have monuments to, awards and streets dedicated to fascists nor fascist militias roaming its streets dealing out vigilante justice, burning people alive and raping and murdering with impunity. Russia has not banned all left wing political parties and opposition media and on and on as I’ve already explained. Yawn
“(and as I have pointed out, Putin himself is an admirer of the Russian fascist ideologue, Iván Aleksándrovich Ilyín).”
Lol. Putin repeats a quote and suddenly he “admires” the author of the quote and completely subscribes to all things said by that person? What planet you living on?
“But having some fascists supporting your side does not necessarily make your regime a fascist one, does it?”
There are countless articles in MSM media prior to 2022 documenting Ukraine’s fascism.
“You could much more plausibly argue that the repellent authoritarian regime of Zelensky (a Jew, BTW)”
Ever heard of a capo? The Banderites hate Zelensky and have threatened to murder him on multiple occasions. As I’ve documented previously.
“is simply making use of the relatively small number of overt fascists in the ranks of its military.”
There were a relatively small number of Nazis in Germany too as All-in with the CIA has shown.
“After all, fascists are ultra-zealous nationalists and the regime has an interest in promoting the putrid ideology of nationalism -as do you”
Erm, no, I don’t.
“How am I not a socialist?”
Because you hate all socialists and socialist governments and you have no respect for the truth. What you actually are is an infantile, smooth brained ideologue.
“LOL, this from the dopey twit who characterizes the present war as a fight against the “Waffen SS””
Lol. Reading comprehension really ain’t your thing is it?
“yet tells us that “Waffen SS” was defeated in 1945.”
Hold on, what you saying now? Do you mean to tell me the Nazis didn’t lose in 1945? I’m not sure how else to interpret that statement.
lol. TS You get dumber and dumber with every post. I literally told you that your use of the expression Waffen SS was obviously code for your claim that what Russia was fighting against was a Nazi regime. But you still didn’t get it. And no I did NOT “mean to tell me the Nazis didn’t lose in 1945”, you silly sausage. Gawd you are so slow on the uptake. I’m talking about the ideology of Nazism that the Waffen SS embodied. Do you know what I mean by ideology?
Oh well never mind – there is nothing one can do if you are so determined to remain stupid
And yes I know there are one or two overtly fascist battalions fighting for the Ukrainian regime. There may not be any overtly fascist battalions on the Russian side but, I suggest, you don’t need to call yourself a fascist in order to be one. The Wagner group, for example, certainly exhibits some of the hallmarks of a fascist group. Besides, there are self-declared fascists fighting on the Russian side as well.
But this still doesn’t answer my main point – what is it about Russia that makes it “not fascist” but that Ukraine has that makes it “fascist”? Saying that the latter venerates some ultra-nationalist who was also a fascist is not a good enough answer, I am afraid (Putin and other high-ranking figures in the Russian government, also venerate a fascist in the form of Putin`s ideological mentor, Iván Aleksándrovich Ilyín. Nor is the fact that the Ukrainian regime muzzles its opponents a good enough answer. So does Russia and this is undeniable. See for example this
Both the Russian and Ukrainian regimes as I’ve said countless times are authoritarian right-wing oligarchies remarkably similar in character. If one is “fascist” then so must be the other…
Lastly, you say I “hate all socialists and socialist governments and you have no respect for the truth.” Gawd, you are truly thick. Do you know what Marxian socialism stands for? Are people who advocate this not socialist? Do I hate my comrades in the SPGB for advocating this?
Of course, I am fully aware there are organizations – and countries – that claim to be “socialist”. I don’t “hate” them but I do oppose them because what they are actually supporting is a form of capitalism, not Marxian socialism.
The funny thing about all this is that Russia does not even claim to be socialist yet you support it. You identify fully with the cause of Russian capitalism and you are an unapologetic nationalist and craven supporter of this capitalist regime. What more needs to be said on the matter?
“Notice All-in hasn’t denied his friendship with the CIA? Come on All-in, fess up. Don’t keep Bojo’s half brain waiting.”
_____________________Come on TS, fess up and provide us with a precise link where Alan suggested such a thing. Knowing what a dolt you are you probably mistook a tongue-in-cheek joke for an actual sentiment
“Come on TS, fess up and provide us with a precise link where Alan suggested such a thing. Knowing what a dolt you are you probably mistook a tongue-in-cheek joke for an actual sentiment”
Come on All-in. Let your teeny half brained mate in on your little friendship circle.
I am not the moderator but this thread has become completely toxic descending into an exchange of insults that is a discredit to our website. I expect I am breaking the rules myself in posting this but Rule 7 of the Forum’s Rules is being consistently infringed by both sides.
7. You are free to express your views candidly and forcefully provided you remain civil. Do not use the forums to send abuse, threats, personal insults or attacks, or purposely inflammatory remarks (trolling). Do not respond to such messages.
You’ve guessed it True Nazi, Alan has been in deep cover as a member of the SPGB for years, infiltrating the organisation to find out what we are doing and how we do it and getting paid squillions to do.
CIA might have saved a few quid by going on line or just visiting our meetings and asking for copies of all of our meetings’ minutes including the conference, the executive and sub committees, as we don’t have any secret meetings and all meetings are open to the public, but that’s the yanks for you, never been very good with their cash.
Just to clear up any other conspiracy theories that are floating about in your febrile imagination, I am indeed the leader of the Lizard people and have regular meetings with the Duke of Edinburgh (he’s not actually dead, he is feeding of the blood of new born babies and exists in a zombie like form whilst living in a council house just outside of Halifax). Robbo is actually a shape shifting alien and lives in Malaga accompanied by the corpse of the late entertainer Matt Munroe (Robbo can often be found late at night serenading Matt’s corpse with his rendition of Born Free). ALB (not his real name) has been masquerading and a Marxist economics expert following the unfortunate incident where he killed his children’s nanny, whilst attempting to actually kill his wife (that’s right I can reveal that ALB is none other than Lord Lucan) and Shergar has been secretly stabled in the cellar of 52 Clapham High Street since February 1983 (if the IRA are reading this, you owe us a fortune in hay)
Only a genius like you, True Nazi, would have been able to penetrate our deep secrets. Still you’ll never find out where the crypt of Mary Magdalene is, or where the Holy Grail is (it’s behind the photocopier hidden in some old copies of the Socialist Standard)
ALB wrote “ this thread has become completely toxic descending into an exchange of insults that is a discredit to our website.”
Actually ALB, that’s fair comment. I will attempt to avoid getting drawn into TN’s noxious world. Mea culpa.
My previous post must have been being written when you made your post.
In reflection Socialists should try and avoid being distracted away the political arguments into trivialisation.
Well, I guess it’s probably not worth trying to get into a debate with this individual, TS, whoever he is. I’m not quite sure why he is even on a socialist forum anyway seeing as he is so hostile to socialism.
I would only add that if you are going to make some outrageous claim about an individual the onus is on you to prove it, not the individual who the claim is about it. TS has said “Notice All-in hasn’t denied his friendship with the CIA” but is not willing to provide any supporting evidence to back up this slur. Quite rightly it needs to be treated with the contempt it deserves – like a lot of other things this individual has said
This forum has lost it’s objective and decency, it is no longer the forum of the Socialist Party or the World Socialist Movement, it is like an alleyway boxing club or a backyard cock fighting ring. Any newcomer that joins this forum will leave immediately. Matt Culbert would have cut the cord a long time ago
MS -That’s a bit harsh. It’s not easy running internet forums. However I am surprised that a troll like TS has been allowed to get away with his insults and perverse views for so long. We must guard against alienating those who wish to legitimately engage in debate with us.
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