Russian Tensions
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YMS, the latest speculation I have read is that the Russian forces will eventually gain ground in the Donbas and lose not just Bakhmut because the promised tanks and rocketry will arrive too late and the Ukrainians will withdraw to avoid encirclement.
Ukrainian forces plan to launch a Summer counter-offensive when they have been strengthened and proceed to cut off Crimea and re-occupy it at the price of the territory conceded at Donbas.
But it is speculation. Nobody has prophetic powers regardless of TS’s claim of prediction.
“The BBC are preparing for the fall of Bakhmut”
But I thought it was a WW1 “stalemate”? Lol! You bunch of faux Marxists. I thought Marxism was based on materialism. You jokers are idealogues. Evidence goes out the window with you clowns. Russia is winning decisively.
TS: “But I thought it was a WW1 “stalemate”? Lol! You bunch of faux Marxists. I thought Marxism was based on materialism. You jokers are idealogues. Evidence goes out the window with you clowns. Russia is winning decisively.”
Enough!
You have belittled. You have engaged in derogatory and violent remarks throughout this debate.
What I do know is that if a person seems to have no empirical ‘verifiable’ facts to back up their position and challenged: they devolve into base and disruptive behaviour. Near fascist actions you might say, they devolve into vitriol and verbal violence as the last line of defense.
My empirical verifiable evidence for this conclusion: most of your above posts.You base your commentary on nothing more than aggression as a signifier of being right.
Settle down and engage in adult debate.Some of us want to debate, put some views across and learn. But you suck the oxygen, like a vacuum bomb, right out of the place… making it awkward for some of us to discuss it without being harassed.
Demonstrate you are not an apex clown of the lower order: debate not degrade!
Your behaviour sounds close to oppressive and more like fascist techniques!Does your behaviour represent Russian aggression and the attitudes toward tensions… perhaps. If your attitude is systemic of what is fueling the war: then it gives us some insight into colonial and imperial causal factors. If you do not want to use verifiable data, then least we can use your cognition as the data in itself.
Take a bloody good look at yourself!
Enough!
Moon of Alabama does quote sources comparing the situation to WWI:
The problem is that Ukraine is losing the war. Not, as far as we can tell, because its soldiers are fighting poorly or its people have lost heart, but because the war has settled into a World War I-style battle of attrition, complete with carefully dug trenches and relatively stable fronts.
Such wars tend to be won — as indeed World War I was — by the side with the demographic and industrial resources to hold out longest. Russia has more than three times Ukraine’s population, an intact economy and superior military technology. At the same time, Russia has its own problems; until recently, a shortage of soldiers and the vulnerability of its arms depots to missile strikes have slowed its westward progress. Both sides have incentives to come to the negotiating table.I can’t see any occasion I’ve described it as stalemate (I did describe it a ‘zugzwang’), however, even inching over into Bakhmut after a five month fight is hardly the sound of a resounding victory in the offing: attrition wearies both sides. Unlike WWI Germany, Ukraine cannot be cut off.
The better example, to my way of thinking, is the Iran/Iraq war, which lasted 8 horrific years.
The United States was behind the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline system last year, citing a single unnamed source “with direct knowledge of the operational planning.”
The attack on the Russia-to-Germany gas pipelines was carried out by the U.S. Navy “under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22″ and with the help of the Norwegian navy and secret service.
According to Hersh, Norwegian officials proposed that the June NATO exercise in the Baltic Sea—sponsored annually by the United States Sixth Fleet naval unit—”would be the ideal cover to plant the mines” on the pipelines.
Last June, with the authorization of President Joe Biden, U.S. Navy divers planted “remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines”.
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
“Enough!
You have belittled. You have engaged in derogatory and violent remarks throughout this debate.”
Erm, ok dad. Loving the dumby spit. May I remind you that I never set the tone of this discussion? It was members on this site who did. I have been ridiculed and insulted from my very first post here as has anyone else who deviates from your anti-socialist faux Marxism. Thing is, I don’t mind getting dirty and rolling in the mud. Perhaps you should share your admonitions around a bit more fairly to include members of the home team such as Bojo’s half baked Brains and Knobbo? I still won’t take your screed seriously but at least I’ll respect the consistency.
“What I do know is that if a person seems to have no empirical ‘verifiable’ facts to back up their position and challenged: they devolve into base and disruptive behaviour.”
I know you’re not talking about me because I consistently provide evidence for my assertions.
“Near fascist actions”
Hyperbole much? Lol
“you might say, they devolve into vitriol and verbal violence as the last line of defense.”
When pointing the finger at someone, three are pointed back
at you. Anyone who fails to take the correct anti-socialist line on this site is ruthlessly pilloried. Just ask Lizzie or me.“My empirical verifiable evidence for this conclusion: most of your above posts.”
Wawawa! You sound like a baby.
“You base your commentary on nothing more than aggression as a signifier of being right.”
Nope, I base my conclusions on verifiable evidence. The tone was set by other members on this thread way before I ever showed up. You want a more collegiate tone, throw out members like Bojo’s Brain and Knobbo. Til then, you get a shit show.
“Settle down and engage in adult debate.”
I’ve tried on multiple occasions even suggesting an end to all name calling. All-in insisted that the name calling should continue.
“Some of us want to debate, put some views across and learn.”
Yeah? Well plenty of you don’t. Go back and read some of the insults directed at me by other participants.
“But you suck the oxygen, like a vacuum bomb, right out of the place…”
Don’t like the heat? Get outa the kitchen.
“making it awkward for some of us to discuss it without being harassed.”
Oh, you poor darling. You gonna crumple like a dried wall flower if someone slings a bit of mud your way? The tone was set way before I ever arrived.
“Demonstrate you are not an apex clown of the lower order”
Lol. Pot meet kettle. What a joke.
“debate not degrade!”
He says after degrading. You do see what you just did there right? The hypocrisy is priceless.
“Your behaviour sounds close to oppressive and more like fascist techniques!”
More tone setting. How do you think I’m going to react to being called a fascist? I suggest a bit of introspection. Clown.
“Does your behaviour represent Russian aggression and the attitudes toward tensions… perhaps.”
Huh? What’s Russia got to do with anything? If someone insults me, I insult back. It’s as simple as that.
“If your attitude is systemic of what is fueling the war: then it gives us some insight into colonial and imperial causal factors.”
Gobbledygook.
“If you do not want to use verifiable data, then least we can use your cognition as the data in itself.”
I use nothing but. Seen me quoting from the CIA lately? No, that would be Alan or Bojo.
“Take a bloody good look at yourself!
Enough!”
Wawawawa!
“Ukrainian forces plan to launch a Summer counter-offensive when they have been strengthened and proceed to cut off Crimea and re-occupy it at the price of the territory conceded at Donbas.”
The delusions of a fantasist.
“But it is speculation. Nobody has prophetic powers regardless of TS’s claim of prediction.”
If an MMA fighter gets into a bout with a 3rd grader one can make an exceedingly accurate prediction about who will win.
“It is hardly likely that pro-Putin sources (the only ones TD will accept) would acknowledge the connection with ultra-nationalist, neo-Nazi fascists.”
Lol. Don’t you know Putin actually loves Nazis? You know, the people who killed his brother along with up to 40 million other of his countrymen and laid waste to his country? You know how I know this? Because a bunch of spineless, careerist lowlifes from western academe sayed it so!
You are not a materialist All-in you are an idealogue. You care not a jot for evidence. Not a Marxist you but a useful gimp for the status quo. A confirmation bias seeking automaton. Lol
“however, even inching over into Bakhmut after a five month fight is hardly the sound of a resounding victory”
You don’t see it as a victory because you don’t understand the nature of the conflict. Russia’s main goal is demilitarization. To do this one does not need to take ground one needs to kill the enemy and destroy his ability to further make war. This Russia is doing with ruthless efficiency. Ukraine has lost 6,500 KIAs just this January, mostly in Bhakmut.
“attrition wearies both sides.”
If it’s a fair fight then both sides weary. This is not a fair fight.
“Unlike WWI Germany, Ukraine cannot be cut off.”
Actually it could with a thrust from Belorus down along the Polish border. But Russia seems happy enough to allow NATO to continue demilitarizing itself by sending its war material to be reduced to molten slag.
On August 4 the Wagner Group reported that it had broken through to occupy the eastern suburbs of Bahkmut.
Six months later, they are still on the eastern outskirts of Bahkmut.
Our Russian Chairbourne Division tactician considers that to be a military success.
In a battle for a city, the customary rule is that it is the attacker who suffers the heavier casualties, not the defenders. I see no evidence that the battle for Bahkmut should be any different.
I don’t know the true cost of lives for either side. Nor does TS. But once again, the sacrifice of a single drop of workers’ blood for either Ukraine’s or Russia’s oligarchs is not worth being spilt.
More drivel from TS who continues to comprehensively miss the point as per usual…
It is frankly irrelevant from the standpoint of this forum whether Russia is winning this war, whether decisively or otherwise. “Decisively” is not a word that springs to mind, though. The small territorial gains the Russian military and its mercenary supporters have recently made to offset territorial losses it suffered last year, have come at an enormous cost and the battle for Bahkmut is still not over after months and months of fighting.
Yes, we know there is more to this war than just territory and TS continues in his pointless endeavor to teach his grandmother to suck eggs. Sure Russia´s population (and military) is substantially larger than Ukraine´s and you would expect, all things being equal, for the former to prevail over the latter. Although all things are not equal and it would seem that morale and determination would favour the Ukrainian side. At any rate, it is difficult to predict the outcome of the war if for no other reason than that we cannot rule out completely the possibility of NATO forces being drawn directly into the conflict. In that case, we are talking about a whole different ball game. The Russian military would be comprehensively destroyed in that case but, if things went nuclear, we would all be destroyed
But all this is by the by. The real issue here is what should be the attitude of socialists to this stupid senseless war?
TS has made it perfectly plain that he fervently sides with Russian capitalism in this war. Laughably, this clown goes on about “faux socialists”, having demonstrated again and again his vehement opposition to socialism which he doesn’t really understand anyway given that he seems to think the state sector of the capitalist economy amounts to “socialism”. If anything is “faux socialist” it is that.
This war is a war being fought over capitalist interests as TS himself has inadvertently revealed – with himself identifying strongly with the interests of Russian capitalism and its appalling far-right repressive capitalist regime against the equally appalling far-right repressive capitalist regime of Ukraine (both sides of which have their own fascist supporters). Whoever “wins” this war, the workers on both sides will have lost.
And that, TS, is the real issue we should be focussing on here – not looking upon this sordid conflict from the dehumanized perspective of some parody of an armchair military strategist who whiles away his time scouring the web for conspiracy sites to lend support to his perverse bourgeois-nationalist take on the world
“The United States was behind the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline system last year”
Fancy that. Just as I had said. I believe I was ridiculed by some for saying as much. Apologies accepted.
“Enough!
You have belittled. You have engaged in derogatory and violent remarks throughout this debate.”
Erm, ok dad. Loving the dumby spit. May I remind you that I never set the tone of this discussion? It was members on this site who did. I have been ridiculed and insulted from my very first post here as has anyone else who deviates from your anti-socialist faux Marxism. Thing is, I don’t mind getting dirty and rolling in the mud. Perhaps you should share your admonitions around a bit more fairly to include members of the home team such as Bojo’s half baked Brains and Knobbo? I still won’t take your screed seriously but at least I’ll respect the consistency.
“What I do know is that if a person seems to have no empirical ‘verifiable’ facts to back up their position and challenged: they devolve into base and disruptive behaviour.”
I know you’re not talking about me because I consistently provide evidence for my assertions.
“Near fascist actions”
Hyperbole much? Lol
“you might say, they devolve into vitriol and verbal violence as the last line of defense.”
When pointing the finger at someone, three are pointed back
at you. Anyone who fails to take the correct anti-socialist line on this site is ruthlessly pilloried. Just ask Lizzie or me.“My empirical verifiable evidence for this conclusion: most of your above posts.”
Wawawa! You sound like a baby.
“You base your commentary on nothing more than aggression as a signifier of being right.”
Nope, I base my conclusions on verifiable evidence. The tone was set by other members on this thread way before I ever showed up. You want a more collegiate tone, throw out members like Bojo’s Brain and Knobbo. Til then, you get a shit show.
“Settle down and engage in adult debate.”
I’ve tried on multiple occasions even suggesting an end to all name calling. All-in insisted that the name calling should continue.
“Some of us want to debate, put some views across and learn.”
Yeah? Well plenty of you don’t. Go back and read some of the insults directed at me by other participants.
“But you suck the oxygen, like a vacuum bomb, right out of the place…”
Don’t like the heat? Get outa the kitchen.
“making it awkward for some of us to discuss it without being harassed.”
Oh, you poor darling. You gonna crumple like a dried wall flower if someone slings a bit of mud your way? The tone was set way before I ever arrived.
“Demonstrate you are not an apex clown of the lower order”
Lol. Pot meet kettle. What a joke.
“debate not degrade!”
He says after degrading. You do see what you just did there right? The hypocrisy is priceless.
“Your behaviour sounds close to oppressive and more like fascist techniques!”
More tone setting. How do you think I’m going to react to being called a fascist? I suggest a bit of introspection. Clown.
“Does your behaviour represent Russian aggression and the attitudes toward tensions… perhaps.”
Huh? What’s Russia got to do with anything? If someone insults me, I insult back. It’s as simple as that.
“If your attitude is systemic of what is fueling the war: then it gives us some insight into colonial and imperial causal factors.”
Gobbledygook.
“If you do not want to use verifiable data, then least we can use your cognition as the data in itself.”
I use nothing but. Seen me quoting from the CIA lately? No, that would be Alan or Bojo.
“Take a bloody good look at yourself!
Enough!”
Wawawawa!
Q.E.D.
You know, I have noted the term ‘gobbledygook’ used by other posters in other forums. similar traits as you too..Be kind to yourself, and to others.
“In a battle for a city, the customary rule is that it is the attacker who suffers the heavier casualties, not the defenders. I see no evidence that the battle for Bahkmut should be any different.”
Erm, except that your assumption isn’t true.
In a battle for a city, the customary rule is that it is the attacker who suffers the heavier casualties, not the defenders. I see no evidence that the battle for Bahkmut should be any different.”
Erm, except that your assumption isn’t true.
__________________________More distraction from the main issue – the anti-working class aspect of this capitalist conflict
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