Russian Tensions
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With regard to Jewish-Israeli v Palestine, I see little hope that either community can come together. Even after decades, Israeli-Arabs are still viewed suspect and those in the occupied territories are commonly seen as the enemy. There is no political or popular will among Jewish-Israelis to change attitudes.
Nationalism has increasingly has a polarising effect.
Sometimes we talk of uneven development of consciousness, with cultural lag in the growth of socialist ideas. This seems to be an expression of it.
The Jewish-Israelis have their own version of the Great Replacement where a unified one-state means in time the eventual demographic transformation where they are out-numbered and lose power.
When people think of Belgium, they do not realise it too is a federal state divided into three communities, the Flemish Community, the French Community and the German-speaking Community, three regions, the Flemish Region, the Walloon Region and the Brussels Region and four language areas, The Dutch language area, the French language area, the bilingual (French and Dutch) area of Brussels-Capital and the German language area.
I am sure other such federations can be cited. But then sometimes when such already exist as in the UK or Spain, there are separatists seeking sovereignty.
“What may succeed is a non-violent civil disobedience campaign witnessed when the fifth of Israel’s citizens joined in a campaign alongside the West Bank Palestinians.”
The Palestinians have been trying it for decades. It doesn’t work. No effect on halting the genocide. Heard of “The Right of Return” protests? Zero effect on Israeli politics and public opinion.
“There is some speculation that a way ahead would be for the Palestinians to start a civil-rights movement to be declared full and equal citizens and West Bank and Gaza become a part of Israel in a form of a new federal constitution.”
Tried, resulted in continued genocide.
“Internationally, BDS is also a positive strategy yes”
But isn’t stopping the genocide. Violence does stop violence. Like it or not.
“No Arab nation is willing to come to the Palestinian’s aid.”
Liar. Syria still stands with the Palestinians. They send what aid they can.
“There is no Palestinian Mandela”
Rubbish. But they’re rotting away in prisons or roadside corpses.
“to placate the fears of the Jewish-Israelis with the hope of reconciliation.”
The Zio-Nazis don’t want reconciliation they want ethno-supremacism.
“A political compromise as seen at the end of the Northern Ireland civil war with the IRA becoming a part of its government is not an option”
Why not?
“I am pessimistic.
But those who believe that violent insurrection is a solution for Palestinians are callously playing straight into the hands of the Zionist right-wing.”
Rubbish, being cowed plays into the Zio-Nazis hands. The only message they understand is violence. Soon the Palestinians will have drones. Lots of drones. A cheap airforce denied all sych previous neo-colonialist movements. The Israelis won’t sleep soundly in their beds anymore. Good, they shouldn’t.
You are a prime example of friends like these who need enemies, a person ready to spill the blood of another, someone who holds a myopic one-sided perspective of a problem, who has little or no understanding of the issues or their history.
For instance, “Syria still stands with the Palestinians”
Relations between Syria and Hamas were only very recently restored after almost a decade of opposition between them. Syria did, however, maintain close relations with the Abbas PA as do many other nations including Israel, itself.
You will call it either fake news, accidental collateral damage or call it as justified but over the course of the civil war, Palestinian refugee camps in Syria were shelled or bombed by the Syrian military.
Syria has proved incapable of regaining the Golan Heights or stopping the unilateral full annexation of it by Israel just as Russia did for its occupation of Ukraine.
“The only message they understand is violence. Soon the Palestinians will have drones”
Your naivety is fully on display again. Where will they fly from?
Israel has the ability (and for many Zionist extremists, the desire) to commit another Nakba on West Bank and Gaza and guarantee the genocide of the Palestinian people if your drones ever become a real threat. No neighbouring country will permit itself to be used as a launching pad, not even Hizbullah in Lebanon who are able to inflict severe damage on Israel.
I won’t waste any more time or go off-topic again answering your ignorant ideas.
“I won’t waste any more time or go off-topic again answering your ignorant ideas.”
Lol, only All-in and his merry band of Guardian Posers think that resumistung oppression is stupid.
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/05/islamic-jihad-claims-new-drones-made-gaza
“Rubbish, being cowed plays into the Zio-Nazis hands. The only message they understand is violence. Soon the Palestinians will have drones. Lots of drones. A cheap airforce denied all sych previous neo-colonialist movements. The Israelis won’t sleep soundly in their beds anymore. Good, they shouldn’t.”
_____________________________________This idiot thinks the way forward is for Palestinian workers to equip themselves with drones and take on the most powerful military force in that part of the world in their quest to form a new capitalist state. The stupidity – and inhumanity – of nationalism knows no bounds it seems. Expect the Israeli regime to step up its oppression by several notches. Expect the Israeli right-wing to gain yet more political strength and to drown out any dissenting opinion at the polls. Expect thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of Palestinian workers to lose their lives as the Israeli military launches a massive military response in retaliation. It’s not as if we haven’t been here before.
Not that a life of a Palestinian worker counts for much in the minds of our bourgeois nationalists of which TS is a prime example. Real workers don’t matter a toss to him, everything has to be sacrificed on the altar of an abstract ideal called “national liberation”. What is that going to achieve anyway? Palestinian workers should be forging ties with Israeli workers just as Ukrainian workers should be forging ties with Russian workers in opposition to the barbarism and inhumanity of capitalist nationalism and its warmongers.
As the Communist Manifesto pointed out, the workers “have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got.”
“This idiot”
What’s the difference between an “idiot” and a [DELETED – WORDS MEANINGS CHANGE WITH TIME]? Both were medical descriptions at one point in time. And both are colloquialisms for poor thinking skills. Well, if Lobotomy can freely call me an idiot, I think I’m justified in calling him a [DELETED].
“thinks the way forward is for Palestinian workers to equip themselves with drones and take on the most powerful military force in that part of the world”
So, the [DELETED] thinks I am suggesting the Palestinians launch a conventional war against the Palestinians. How absurd. There are many forms that violent resistance can take short of all out conventional war. There are many factions in the Palestinian resistance each with their own approach and I support all of them in their resistance to Zio-Nazi oppression violent or otherwise. The fact is, with drone technology the playing field has tilted a tiny bit back toward the Palestinians.
“in their quest to form a new capitalist state.”
Without a state, capitalist or otherwise, one is defenceless against foreign aggression.
“The stupidity – and inhumanity – of nationalism knows no bounds it seems.”
Yes, Zio-Nazi nationalism is stupid.
“Expect the Israeli regime to step up its oppression by several notches.”
Short of Nazi gas chambers the oppression dial is already up at 10.
“Expect the Israeli right-wing to gain yet more political strength and to drown out any dissenting opinion at the polls.”
It’s already there and getting worse. The Israelis see no repercussions for their actions. Only violent resistance will force a change in their behaviour.
“Expect thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of Palestinian workers to lose their lives as the Israeli military launches a massive military response in retaliation.”
And when Israelis also suffer then they’ll be forced to negotiate.
“It’s not as if we haven’t been here before.”
Things have never been so bad for the Palestinians despite their attempts at peaceful change. Violence is their only option now.
“Not that a life of a Palestinian worker counts for much in the minds of our bourgeois nationalists of which TS is a prime example.”
The Palestinians are the authors of their own fate. They’ve a right to use violence under international law. Should they choose to employ that right I support them 100%
“Real workers don’t matter a toss to him”
“True” workers per chance? As opposed untrue workers?
“everything has to be sacrificed on the altar of an abstract ideal called “national liberation”.”
Yes. Better to die standing than on one’s knees.
“What is that going to achieve anyway?”
Negotiations.
“Palestinian workers should be forging ties with Israeli workers just as Ukrainian workers should be forging ties with Russian workers in opposition to the barbarism and inhumanity of capitalist nationalism and its warmongers.”
Israeli workers want them all dead.
“As the Communist Manifesto pointed out, the workers “have no country. We cannot take from them what they have not got.””
Israeli workers want the Palestinians dead. Israel is almost indistinguishable from Nazi Germany these days.
MODERATOR NOTICE
1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.I suggest True Scotsman be given the last word on the Israeli-Palestine conflict on this thread.
If any poster wishes to continue the exchange, a new topic should started.
The Putin capitalist regime’s support for Far-right and even fascist political organisations
Message deleted and moved to new topic by Moderator
“The Putin capitalist regime’s support for Far-right and even fascist political organisations”
Fake news.
Really!
Are you spreading a little of it too!
MH Flight, the Russians who shot a civil plane down initially said: spies…. spies… Nothing to see here… Mmm… Mmm!
Mmmm.What are you shooting down: Mmmm!
Truth eh!“Are you spreading a little of it too! MH Flight, the Russians who shot a civil plane”
Actually, the allegation is that eastern-Ukrainians shot down the plane in their battle with Nazi coup regime forces.
“The Putin capitalist regime’s support for Far-right and even fascist political organisations”
Fake news.
_________________________LOL. Anything that contradicts your fervent support of the far-right capitalist regime of Putin and his capitalist cronies is “fake news” by your reckoning, Mr Putin bootlicker.
TS – “Actually, the allegation is that eastern-Ukrainians shot down the plane in their battle with Nazi coup regime forces.”
MH17 – A criminal investigation and a legal process have been completed.
A Dutch court in November after a 32-month trial found Russian nationals Igor Girkin and Sergey Dubinskiy and a Ukrainian, Leonid Kharchenko, guilty in absentia of bringing down the plane and the murder of everyone onboard.
Prosecutors concluded that the four men did not “press the button themselves” but were responsible for taking the BUK from Russia and deploying it on the battlefield.
Girkin, aka Igor Strelkov, was a commander of the separatist-backed forces in 2014. Dubinskiy is a former military officer of the GRU and held a senior role in the Donetsk separatist forces. Kharchenko was a commander of a combat unit in Donetsk and took his orders from Dubinskiy.
A third Russian national, Oleg Pulatov, a former officer in the Russian Spetsnaz, was acquitted of the charges due to a lack of evidence about his role in the firing of the missile.
Case closed.
Gulp!
This Nazi narrative: where did you first hear it?
What are its origins to you?
Find the origin (in a Derridean sense) and there you see the origin and genealogy of what you said. And what you said came from.
MH was a precursor warning to all nations and all peoples: none of us are immune to such conflict and we all suffer.
Throw away that little red rev book- and take a look at true socialism (via democracy and education).
Myself: statist news and national interests always seem an origin of aggressor controlled narrowcasts. I avoid its hold but note its audience.
Seek broad views as best you can… avoid narrowcasts.
Be safe.
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