Russian Tensions
- This topic has 5,312 replies, 39 voices, and was last updated 1 week, 1 day ago by
.
-
Posts
-
“And its source – the Venezuelan Orinoco Tribune from April 5th that in turn uses Venezualan Mision Verdad as its source
and Intel Slava Z – an official Russian news agency as its source, and a pro-Russian Russia in Spain April 4 source. Also used is a Russian fact-checker site.”Poisoning the well ad hominem fallacy. Used by the smooth brained to soothe their confirmation bias. The only thing that matters is is the information true not where it comes from.
“Sorry but I prefer sources who actually conducted on-the-ground investigations by professional UN inspectors, not political hacks.”
Like the sham UN investigation into “human rights abuses” in Xinjiang? The OHCHR is yet one more UN body, like the OPCW and many others, wholly captured by NATOstan.
“The mayor drove through the streets and reported no corpses. Did you actually click the link given and read the Telegram post where AFP says the streets were littered with corpses?”
Days after the Russians had left and the Nazi death squads had swept through on their “cleansing” operation looking for “collaborators”. All those killed had white arm bands or bindings, showing they were friendly to Russian troops. The poor sods hadn’t realised the Russians had left already when they bumped into the Nazis.
“It claims Azov troops arrived on 1st April yet satellite pictures already showed corpses in the street prior to their alleged arrival.”
The photos are as clear as mud but probably fakes.
Fake: bodies of civilians have been lying on the streets of Bucha since March 11
“Did you click on the link and read the NYT report? Corpses in the streets.”
If the bodies photographed by AFP were the ones supposedly shown in the satellite pics they’d have been putrified. They weren’t though because they were freshly killed by the Nazi death squads.
See above link. So what really happened in Bucha…
What happened in Bucha? A full analysis of the Ukrainian provocation
So War on Fakes is credible reputable source?
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/war-on-fakes-bias/
“The fact-checks conducted on the website are often inaccurate… In general, the War on Fakes is a Russian disinformation website that promotes pro-Russian government propaganda.”
“…the website purposefully uses false claims to portray Ukraine in a bad light, while at the same time spreading and substantiating Russian propaganda…”
https://foreignpress.org/news/war-on-fakes-the-fake-fact-checking-website-and-telegram-channel
“…the extreme pro-Russia nationalism consistent in “War on Fakes” is consistent with the deliberately false information in the Russian media. And “War On Fakes” is more than likely directly involved with—if not an actual arm of—the Russian government…”
https://www.insider.com/russian-telegram-channel-war-on-fakes-spreads-disinformation-2022-3
“The War on Fakes channel has repeatedly attempted to push conspiracies that footage from Ukraine is somehow being falsified..”
“War on Fake, which the watchdog says is the latest weapon in Russia’s information warfare arsenal: a website that promotes Russian disinformation through the pretext of combating disinformation.”
I could go on but you simply dismiss as fake news but i will end with this link that specifically calls out you out on Bucha
https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/aug/08/how-war-fakes-uses-fact-checking-spread-pro-russia/
“A review by PolitiFact shows that its “fact-checks” are actually pieces of pro-Russia disinformation packed with falsehoods about the situation in Ukraine.”
Claim: There were no bodies of Ukrainian civilians on the roads of Bucha after Russian forces left the area around March 30. Someone “laid out” the bodies to falsely accuse the Russians of killing civilians. (Both claims from April 4.)
That is wrong. Satellite images reviewed by The New York Times show that bodies had been lying on the streets of Bucha since at least March 11, indicating that they were shot by the occupying Russian forces and not “laid out” after they left the area. Footage has since surfaced showing Russians executing civilians in Bucha.Claim: Bodies of Ukrainian civilians change position in different photographs of Bucha — more evidence that “bodies were arranged” to incriminate Russians. (April 5)
The body of a victim does appear in different positions in images by AP and AFP (graphic imagery), and the body of a victim does disappear in different images by AFP and Reuters (graphic imagery). But that happens because Ukrainian soldiers were moving the bodies off the street, fearing that Russians might have mined them, according to the AP, and because Ukrainian authorities were burying the victims, according to The Washington Post.All-in with the deep state, you’re as predictable as the sunrise. You poison the well with MSM propaganda hit pieces doing the propagandists job for them. On a “socialist” website of all places! Lol. What’s the saying? “The flak is heaviest when you’re over the target”? War on Fakes is upsetting “the narrative” so the MSM presstitutes dutifully smear the site’s authors. If the MSM weren’t doing such I’d have to question WOF’s reputability. But WOF is in good company; Wikileaks, The Grayzone, Consortium News and Counterpunch have received similar treatment. So All-in, is Wikileaks credible? Lol
Wikileaks performed as a conduit for confidential government information and e-mails, that were forwarded and published by the MSM, including the Guardian.
You do understand the difference, don’t you?
And yes, those who wished their secrets to remain secret have been very busy discrediting and persecuting it.
If you click on to this forum’s topic, you will discover many sympathetic posts supporting Julian Assange.
Of those websites that you cite, many of whom our SOYMB blog has also used as sources for various stories, none can be so closely associated with the promotion of the interests of a state power as WOF, a fake fake news checker.
“Wikileaks performed as a conduit for confidential government information and e-mails, that were forwarded and published by the MSM, including the Guardian.”
Yes, and when Wikileaks published information damaging to neo-liberal darling of Guardian brahs, Hilary Clinton, it suddenly becomes a Putin mouthpiece.
This, in one Guardian hitpiece…
“All of which raises the question: do Assange, Putin and Trump form a triangle? Are they in communication with each other or merely exploiting a coincidence of interests?
“…he sees US hegemony in the international world order as the biggest problem facing us today. In his attempt to bring ‘transparency’, he ends up siding with the very regimes that deny transparency and human rights. That’s the irony of my enemy’s enemy is my friend.”
So, All-in with the deep state, what’s the answer to the Guardian’s question? Was Wikileaks “in a triangle” with Putin?
And answer me this. How had the bodies of the civilians in Bucha remained miraculously free of decomposition for over 2 weeks despite the warm weather?
The BBC is spreading Russian propaganda?!
“And answer me this. How had the bodies of the civilians in Bucha remained miraculously free of decomposition for over 2 weeks despite the warm weather?”
Once you refer me to the post-mortems and autopsy reports that you appear privy to?
CNN reported
“A CNN team visited the basement and saw the bodies before removal. They were in advanced stage of decomposition.”
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-05-22/h_798231e93dc9fae067f4d4ac8fccd008“…the Guardian, the New York Times, Le Monde, Der Spiegel, and El País collaborated to release excerpts from 250,000 documents obtained by Assange…The editors and publishers of the media organisations that first published those revelations have come together to publicly oppose plans to charge Assange
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/nov/28/media-groups-urge-us-drop-julian-assange-charges
As I said, there is no disputing that there was a campaign to discredit Assange and Putin. They did try to divert attention away from them by claiming it was a deliberate Russian hack.
But even the BBC published some of the anti-Clinton info
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37639370Its critics conveniently forgot that revelations of Putin’s secret wealth came via Wikileaks
“As for the material put out on WikiLeaks regarding the wealth of the Russian prime minister, first of all, it is hard to understand how authentic the wires are…”
https://www.rt.com/russia/dismisses-wikileaks-putin-wealth/
And revelations of Russian corruption
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-11893886Did Russia also hack Clinton? Who really knows? Who really cares?
She has been proven corrupt and the US liberal media revealed themselves as the Clinton lap-dogs as much as Fox and Newsmax were Trump’s.
“Once you refer me to the post-mortems and autopsy reports that you appear privy to?”
You don’t need post mortem reports you can find the photographs yourself on the internet. These photos aren’t of bodies that have been outdoors rotting away for 2 weeks being pecked at by crows and scavenged by dogs. And notice the white ribbons? Shows they’re friendly to Russian troops. Why would Russian troops be shooting friendlies? Nazis on the other hand…You’ve been had All-in with the imperialists.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2022/04/04/album/1649068530_946039.amp.html
So you can judge the time of death and the state of a body from just a simple crude photo. Makes the job of a pathologist rather redundant, don’t you think?
But if you really want to know the time a body takes to decay
Of course, donning a white armband would satisfy any Russian soldier that a local was not a spy or saboteur nosing around their positions.
And of course, any Azov militia would naively and automatically assume that a white armband meant you were a collaborator and pro-Russian, not simply trying to go about the necessity of getting food and water while under occupation.
Azov actually described how Russians made civilians wear white armbands
https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/03/19/7332747/A white armband merely signified that you were an unarmed civilian, not your politics.
“The cloth used to bind the man’s hands appeared to be a white armband. Russian troops, while they were in Bucha, required that local residents wear the armbands to identify themselves, according to one woman who was still wearing hers.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/residents-of-bucha-recount-horrors-i-recognized-him-by-his-sneakers/ar-AAVTf7C“… those pictures and videos don’t really allow us to judge the state of the bodies since they are dressed in warm clothes (let alone how stiff they were), so I find this argument totally unconvincing and don’t understand why anyone would take it seriously…”
https://cspicenter.org/blog/waronscience/what-happened-in-bucha/
https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259.amp
“In the hours after death, bodies go through a process called rigor mortis where muscles contract and stiffen. We asked a forensic pathologist for their opinion on whether a body would be expected to be “stiffened” after four days. One who has worked in places including Kosovo and Rwanda on war crimes investigations, who did not want to be named, told the BBC that by four days rigor mortis has “usually subsided”.”
The timeline offered by Russia is disputed
“Russia’s claim it withdrew its forces on March 30 is contradicted by a report in Zvezda TV, a news outlet run by the Russian ministry of defense. Zvezda reported that its forces were conducting “clean up” operations in Bucha on April 1. A day earlier Ukrainian authorities had said that the town was still under Russian control. Imagery of atrocities began to emerge as soon as early as April 1…This undermines the Russian claim that no evidence of atrocities emerged before April 3, and shows the bodies were already present when Ukrainian forces entered the town…”
https://www.businessinsider.com/timeline-disproves-russia-claims-that-bucha-massacre-is-ukraine-hoax-2022-4Does Ukrainian army commit atrocities? Of course and when there is evidence the BBC reports on it.
https://www.bbc.com/news/61025388
https://www.bbc.com/news/60907259.amp“Russian troops, while they were in Bucha, required that local residents wear the armbands to identify themselves, according to one woman who was still wearing hers.”
To identify themselves as what All-in? As friendly. So the Russian troops, for no apparent reason just decided to slaughter a bunch of friendlies? Why? The bodies then lie there for 2 weeks and miraculously show no signs of decomposition or animal feeding?
Then you have to ignore the announced Nazi cleansing operation, the fact the mayor said nothing of a massacre, the fact the Nazis have executed umpteen numbers of “collaborators” since. The fact the Nazis could use the incident to rally global sympathy and support and derail peace negotiations.
Well, I gotta hand it to you All-in, when you’re wrong, you really commit to the process.
“those pictures and videos don’t really allow us to judge the state of the bodies since they are dressed in warm clothes”
Lol, warm clothes would’ve made things worse. The weather was warm too. What happens to a warm dead body All-in? It decomposes! Moreover, hands and faces are clearly visible and not in advanced stages of decomposition. That’s obvious to anyone with two eyes. The bodies shouldn’t even have faces. After 2 weeks in the elements animals would have picked them clean to the bone as you can see in Patrick Lancaster’s footage around Azovstal.
But what do I know, here’s an expert’s view…
““On the 2nd or 3rd day, the so-called “cadaveric green” appears on the surface of the skin. By the end of the first day, first or beginning of the second week this cadaveric green covers essentially all the skin of the corpse. Then, after about 1-2 weeks, areas of “green” can change to brown and black. That is, the corpse may even turn black. By the 3rd-4th day the so-called “putrefactive venous network” appears and by the end of the second week the so-called “putrefactive gases” appear which give increased volume to the corpse”, – he says.
According to the expert, the photo and video evidence (drying of the skin in some areas) suggest that the death occurred a few hours, maybe a day ago.
That is, the bodies could not have been lying on the streets from March 11 until the Russian troops were withdrawn from Bucha.”
All-in, you’re looking the fool yet again.
So you have x-ray vision now, able to detect the state of the body beneath clothes and the degree of decomposition of the vital organs inside a body. Who is the fool?
Once again, where is your forensic evidence? The UN investigators did have access to medical examinations. French experts were called in also to help determine cause and time of deaths.
I repeat
“A white armband merely signified that you were an unarmed civilian, not your politics.”And the whole point is that unarmed civilians were murdered in a war crime.
Why would the woman interviewed in the ABC news still be wearing her white armband when the Ukrainians were in charge if it depicted a pro-Russian sympathiser
But here is another story
“After the Russian forces took control of Bucha, doctors were required to wear a white bandage in order to leave the hospital, and only during daylight hours and on foot. They were warned that any vehicle could come under fire — even an ambulance.”
About the mayor
“…the mayor published a video on Facebook in which he called March 31 “the day of Bucha’s liberation” and didn’t mention any bodies in the streets. However, contrary to what Russia claims, this video was posted not on March 31 but on April 1 at 6:31 pm local time. As far as I can tell, the first video of corpses in the streets of Bucha was published on Telegram the same day at 6:42 pm and, in the next few hours, several other pictures and videos of similar atrocities were published on social media. In other words, while it’s true that the mayor of Bucha didn’t mention any corpses in the streets in his statement, pictures and videos showing bodies in the streets of Bucha emerged almost immediately after he posted that statement. It would still be weird if Bucha had been liberated on March 31, as the mayor claimed in his statement, yet he didn’t mention the corpses littering the streets in a video he published on April 1, but a closer look at the evidence shows that’s not really what happened.
Indeed, another city official had posted a video on Bucha’s official Facebook page that morning at 10:18 am local time in which he claimed that the city was still occupied, urged residents to be cautious and even mentioned corpses in the streets. Thus, according to that post, liberation was still in progress during the morning of April 1. My guess is that Ukrainian forces started entering the town on March 31, which is why the mayor called it “the day of Bucha’s liberation”, but either there were still Russians at this point or the Ukrainians were not sure yet they were completely gone and didn’t confirm it until April 1. If the Ukrainian forces were still in the process of reoccupying the city on the morning of April 1 and people were not even sure that the Russians were completely gone at that time, it’s not particularly surprising that videos of the massacre didn’t emerge until later that day. It probably means that people were not summarily executed in every part of town, or at least that most of the corpses were brought to just some areas, but this is entirely consistent with the hypothesis that the Russian forces are responsible…”
https://cspicenter.org/blog/waronscience/what-happened-in-bucha/
You of course are required to debunk the satellite images that showed bodies while the Russian were occupying Bucha that later matched up with later pictures taken when Bucha was retaken by Ukraine.
And the witness accounts? All lies?
As with other supposed “proof” of a hoax, the Russian supposed scenarios have been shown to be false such as the moving corpses.
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-russia-claims-massacre-bucha-staged-ukraine-1694804
“So you have x-ray vision now, able to detect the state of the body beneath clothes”
Lol, I don’t need x-ray vision. I can clearly see the faces and hands in the press photos as can you. No noticeable putrification or signs of animal predation. And there’s the small matter of the forensic expert I quoted giving his professional opinion. He concludes they were killed very recentlty.
“Who is the fool?”
His name is Alan.
“Once again, where is your forensic evidence?”
Right before you in the photos. Magic bodies that don’t decompose or succumb to animal predation. Hallelujah, it’s a miracle!
“The UN investigators did have access to medical examinations. French experts were called in also to help determine cause and time of deaths.”
The investigation was a sham. Just like many other UN “investigations”.
“I repeat
“A white armband merely signified that you were an unarmed civilian, not your politics.””So why murder them? What did the Russian army gain by executing friendly civilians? Why didn’t their bodies decompose? Why was there no animal predation? The bodies were supposedly out in the open for weeks!
“And the whole point is that unarmed civilians were murdered in a war crime.”
Duh, no shit Sherlock. But it was the Nazis that killed ’em.
“Why would the woman interviewed in the ABC news still be wearing her white armband when the Ukrainians were in charge if it depicted a pro-Russian sympathiser”
Maybe she was unaware of the Russian withdrawal. She leaves her basement to collect food and water and stumbles upon a gaggle of reporters. Hardly improbable.
“But here is another story
“After the Russian forces took control of Bucha, doctors were required to wear a white bandage in order to leave the hospital, and only during daylight hours and on foot. They were warned that any vehicle could come under fire — even an ambulance.”
It’s called a curfew. Standard practice in war zones. And there is video evidence of Ukrainian troops moving around in ambulances.
youtube.com
https://m.youtube.com › watch
Ukrainian soldiers using an Ambulance for transport“You of course are required to debunk the satellite images that showed bodies while the Russian were occupying Bucha that later matched up with later pictures taken when Bucha was retaken by Ukraine.”
The bodies that didn’t decompose? Were magically resistant to animal predation? Lol. I already have provided multiple links refuting the entire Bucha narrative.
“And the witness accounts? All lies?”
Lol, Azov fighters have been caught numerous times posing as civilians in interviews. Moreover, how would the Nazis treat a witness telling the truth?
“As with other supposed “proof” of a hoax, the Russian supposed scenarios have been shown to be false such as the moving corpses.”
Why weren’t the corpses decomposed? Why no animal predation? What motivation would Russian troops have had to murder friendly civilians? Ones holding Russian aid packages for God’s sake!
Admit it All-in, the Nazis have duped you. You’re a conduit for Nazi oropaganda. A useful idiot. Bravo! Or should I say Zieg Heil?!
“And they all appeared to have been dead for some time. They had sallow, sunken skin and stiff fingers. I had not seen many bodies before that day, but some of the few I had were recently killed, and they did not look like this.”
https://www.ibtimes.com/bucha-street-filled-bodies-3486975What more can I say?
You are your own expert and nobody can convince you otherwise of your own facts.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.