Russian Tensions
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Another interesting research finding:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10463283.2016.1252530“Much too harsh, TS. The SPGB is engaging in the same abstract propaganda which they’ve been undertaking for 118 years. Please give credit where it’s due. 🙂”
Lizzie45 – I can’t see how your continual sniping contributes to the debate? You seem to be content to remain on your knees begging for more crumbs from your betters. If that’s how you wish to spend your life that’s your choice but it is not ours. You’ve said the begging is the only game in town so why bother with this forum – get back to your: ‘Please sir, I want some more’ strategy.Putin ally and hunting.
TS, I remember you saying in passing that you oppose large mammal hunting. Putin doesn’t seem so averse.
See #236070 on thread here about animal holocaust.
Your figures are suspect but even if allowing them to be accurate. Voting numbers do not reflect them, party membership do not reflect them but we have always accepted that the neo-Nazis do punch above their weight.
So the population of Ukraine is in the tens of millions and your Nazis number in the hundreds of thousands.
The vast majority of the Ukrainian military are not in politically extremist regiments, (just as the majority of Russian army is not Wagner or Chechen mercenaries)To remove this minority from influence and out of power according to the De-Nazification plan means completely defeating the Ukrainians, occupying all of their country and operating purges through the “filtration” system to identify those who fought for nationalistic reasons and those who fought for the Nazi ideology motive. A bit more complex than checking for tattoos.
What an elaborate infrastructure will have to be put into place.
You are confident of the ability of Russia to accomplish this. And you suggest we are not the realists!!
And just how long can this process be implemented? Years? Decades? Forever?
At the negotiating table, Zelensky may well accept that to achieve peace he and his cabinet can resign. And who will hold the veto on the people who take their place?. The Russians, of course. Ukraine becomes a puppet state.
Is this a feasible pathway to peace? A settlement acceptable to the majority of non-Nazi Ukrainians? I think not.
Also, you have a serious misreading of the Sino-Vietnamese War that continued long after the Chinese invasion was foiled. Yet again as has been said by others here, you confuse pretext with cause. It was a war between two imperialist countries aspiring for control of Indo-China.
“You seem to be content to remain on your knees”
In all fairness I do occasionally adopt other positions, if only to give the knees (and the mouth) a rest… 🙂 🙂 🙂
So the population of Ukraine is in the tens of millions and your Nazis number in the hundreds of thousands.
The vast majority of the Ukrainian military are not in politically extremist regiments, (just as the majority of Russian army is not Wagner or Chechen mercenaries)
___________________________________________________________If there is one thing that is almost designed to drive the non-Nazi majority of Ukrainians into the hands of the Nazi minority that is Putin’s stupid senseless blunder to invade Ukraine. You don’t “de-nazify” by terrorizing a population and bombing their homes. All that does is whip up reactionary Ukrainianian ultra-nationalism and thereby render them more susceptible to Nazi influence
According to this article, the Ukrainian capture of Kherson might present an opportunity for a negotiated peace Who knows?
Let’s hope so but the Ukrainian nationalists are not likely to agree as long as NATO is arming them. Which means in practice when the US judges that Russia has been sufficiently weakened.
“Your figures are suspect”
No, they are not.
“So the population of Ukraine is in the tens of millions and your Nazis number in the hundreds of thousands.”
Something like that. But then there are fascist sympathisers and there’s the indoctrination of the youth to consider also.
“The vast majority of the Ukrainian military are not in politically extremist regiments”
No, they’re not. Just as most German soldiers weren’t in SS units. What’s your point?
“To remove this minority from influence and out of power according to the De-Nazification plan means completely defeating the Ukrainians”
It does. Which is probably why the 300,000 reservists were called up.
“occupying all of their country and operating purges through the “filtration” system to identify those who fought for nationalistic reasons and those who fought for the Nazi ideology motive. A bit more complex than checking for tattoos.”
Yes, but I suspect most of them won’t survive that long. Once Russia’s offensives kick off Ukrainian troops will be slaughtered in appalling numbers. No need to filter out the dead.
“What an elaborate infrastructure will have to be put into place.”
It won’t be that hard. Russia has excellent intelligence on the Ukraine.
“You are confident of the ability of Russia to accomplish this. And you suggest we are not the realists!!”
Very confident. It’s not like it wasn’t done already in Germany following WW2. Or have you forgotten about that?
“And just how long can this process be implemented? Years? Decades? Forever?”
Didn’t take forever in Germany.
“Ukraine becomes a puppet state.”
Lol, it already is a puppet. Of Washington.
“Is this a feasible pathway to peace?”
Well, Kiev should’ve thought about all that before it started its war against its Russian speaking population.
“A settlement acceptable to the majority of non-Nazi Ukrainians? I think not.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself. You think not.
“Also, you have a serious misreading of the Sino-Vietnamese War that continued long after the Chinese invasion was foiled.”
Nope. It lasted just over a month.
“Yet again as has been said by others here, you confuse pretext with cause. It was a war between two imperialist countries aspiring for control of Indo-China.”
No, it wasn’t. I confuse nothing. You think not.
“Which means in practice when the US judges that Russia has been sufficiently weakened.”
But Russia will only be stronger. It has gained huge swathes of territory and the resources and populations therein, its troops are battle hardened and NATO is being demilitarised. If the US believes it’s weakening Russia it’s in for a rude awakening.
“If there is one thing that is almost designed to drive the non-Nazi majority of Ukrainians into the hands of the Nazi minority that is Putin’s stupid senseless blunder to invade Ukraine.”
It was not at all senseless. The war Ukraine started was senseless. Russia is only finishing what Ukraine started.
“You don’t “de-nazify” by terrorizing a population and bombing their homes.”
Actually, if Nazis are using those homes as firing positions, then that’s exactly what you do.
“All that does is whip up reactionary Ukrainianian ultra-nationalism and thereby render them more susceptible to Nazi influence”
And remind me how losing WW2 influenced even more Germans into embracing Nazi ideology? Oh that’s right, it didn’t.
“And remind me how losing WW2 influenced even more Germans into embracing Nazi ideology? Oh that’s right, it didn’t.”
And WW2 was settled by the Nazis being forced into Unconditional Surrender, that looks highly unlikely in the Ukraine – Russia war (apart that is from your “call of duty” based fantasy world)
“And WW2 was settled by the Nazis being forced into Unconditional Surrender”
And Ukraine will be forced into unconditional surrender.
“that looks highly unlikely in the Ukraine – Russia war”
Erm no, it is almost certain to happen. The only thing that could forestall such an outcome is direct NATO intervention. And then that probably means WW3.
“(apart that is from your “call of duty” based fantasy world)”
Actually, it’s a very commonly held view, just not by Guardian Brahs.
TS “Actually, it’s a very commonly held view, just not by Guardian Brahs.”
The only people who believe that are you and Putin’s Granny
“Which means in practice when the US judges that Russia has been sufficiently weakened.”
But Russia will only be stronger. It has gained huge swathes of territory and the resources and populations therein
______________________________________________________Ah ha, so finally the cracks are beginning to appear in the facade. Now our True Stalinist is beginning to inadvertently reveal the real capitalist motivations behind his master’s imperialistic ambitions – it is about gaining “huge swathes of territory and the resources and populations therein”.
So all that talk about wanting to “de-nazify” Ukraine was a load of bollocks. Just so much hot air that gullible fools can faithfully regurgitate on demand. “It must be true cos Putin said it” LOL.
Putin has no problem with the idea of some autocratic rightwing corrupt regime existing on his doorstep. After all, he heads one himself. I still want to know from TS, however, how he imagines you can possibly hope to “de-nazify” a country – assuming Ukraine was a Nazi country – by firing missiles at it and whipping up its citizens into a state of reactionary ultra-nationalism in defense of their so-called homeland
Mr Putin is the best recruiting sergeant for the cause of the small Ukrainian Nazi movement they could ever have hoped for.
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