Russian Tensions
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How many times must I tell you Alan?! The Guardian isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. The talk of pushing for Zelensky to negotiate is a sham.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/11/ukraine-us-deceives-allies-to-keep-them-in-line.html#more
“US officials have requested that Kyiv signal its openness to negotiate NOT to push Ukraine towards the negotiating table immediately, but to maintain the support of concerned allies, according to the Post.” (my emphasis)
The ulterior motive is fully explained and MofA concerns that it is a PR exercise are reflected in the article
The point of my message was to confirm ALB’s earlier posts that there will come a point that Ukraine’s allies will place their own national interests before continued support of Ukraine. The US advice suggests that some countries are already experiencing “Ukraine Fatigue” and require reassurance that peace talks will take place and the war will end soon.
As for MofA accompanying military analysis, I simply cannot comment. I will await the outcome of the Russian offensive you expect to happen and whether it is a swift victory that you fully anticipate or becomes another stalemate phase of a long war which is also a reasonable prognosis.
Once more, the SPGB is for the end of hostilities under any conditions whether detrimental to Ukraine. Losing territory is a price worth paying for peace.
And Russia can live with neighbouring nations being NATO members as it has already demonstrated. Or do you expect an invasion of Finland when its membership of NATO is formalised?
For the de-Nazification I think the war has been counter-productive and deepened the right-wing influences and strengthened the Russophobe prejudices.
The Shock and Awe invasion failed.
A quick victory was not accomplished and the Kiev government stayed intact.
If it now negotiates, it will not be because Russia forced it to compromise and make concessions but as the article implies, because those presently supporting Ukraine are pressing for it. And the US and the UK are aware that commitment to Ukraine is waning.
“US officials have requested that Kyiv signal its openness to negotiate NOT to push Ukraine towards the negotiating table immediately”
Still a lie. They’re not interested in EVER pushing Ukraine to negotiate. They want this war to go on forever.
“The ulterior motive is fully explained and MofA concerns that it is a PR exercise are reflected in the article”
Where?
“The point of my message was to confirm ALB’s earlier posts that there will come a point that Ukraine’s allies will place their own national interests before continued support of Ukraine.”
No, there won’t. NATO sees this conflict as existential. It is not willing to back down under any cirumstances. The US/EU ruling classes support the miltary effort 1000%. The ordinary person on the street? Well that’s another question.
“The US advice suggests that some countries are already experiencing “Ukraine Fatigue” and require reassurance that peace talks will take place and the war will end soon.”
No, the public is feeling the “fatigue” not the elite.
“As for MofA accompanying military analysis, I simply cannot comment. I will await the outcome of the Russian offensive you expect to happen and whether it is a swift victory that you fully anticipate or becomes another stalemate phase of a long war which is also a reasonable prognosis.”
No, a stalemate is not a reasonable prognosis if one actually understands the disposition of forces and their compliment of equipment.
“Once more, the SPGB is for the end of hostilities under any conditions whether detrimental to Ukraine. Losing territory is a price worth paying for peace.”
Washington rules Ukraine not Kiev. There will not be peace until Russia comprehensively defeats the Urainian proxy on the battlefield.
“And Russia can live with neighbouring nations being NATO members as it has already demonstrated. Or do you expect an invasion of Finland when its membership of NATO is formalised?”
If Finland allows NATO bases and missile silos Russia will invade.
“For the de-Nazification I think the war has been counter-productive and deepened the right-wing influences and strengthened the Russophobe prejudices.”
You’re calling the game at the third quarter. The match ain’t over yet.
“The Shock and Awe invasion failed.”
Russia didn’t implement a shock and awe strategy until now. It is working. Almost all of Ukraine is in the dark. The train system cannot run which will cripple Ukraine’s ability to transport and resupply its troops.
“A quick victory was not accomplished and the Kiev government stayed intact.”
Actually it almost did succeed but negotiations were scuttled by NATOstan.
“If it now negotiates, it will not be because Russia forced it to compromise and make concessions but as the article implies, because those presently supporting Ukraine are pressing for it.”
Or Ukraine suffers a total military defeat.
“And the US and the UK are aware that commitment to Ukraine is waning.”
Except that it isn’t.
In Italy, tens of thousands of people turn out, including members of labor unions and Catholic associations, students and a variety of other activists. They were carrying rainbow flags bearing the words “peace” and “non-violence.” Other slogans heard and seen during the demonstration included “Weapons down, wages up,” “Enough arms to Ukraine” and “We do not want war. No weapons, no sanctions. Where is diplomacy?”
Former Italian prime minister and Five Star party leader Giuseppe Conte attended the rally, stated,
“Ukraine is now fully armed – we need a breakthrough towards a ceasefire and peace negotiations,” adding that the current “strategy is leading only to escalation.”More than half of Germans want their government to increase diplomatic efforts to bring an end to the Ukraine conflict, a recent opinion poll has shown.The share of people espousing this view has risen by 14 percentage points since June.
Over 70% of respondents believe there is no need for Berlin to further ramp up its weapons supplies to Kiev. 41% replied by saying that the current level of support is sufficient, while another 30% believe that Berlin has already gone overboard.
Ukraine said it estimated environmental losses at 1.35 trillion hryvnia ($37 billion).
The amount of harmful emissions from forest fires, fuel burning and blazes at industrial companies has exceeded 67 million tons this year, compared with annual 2.2 million tons in two previous years.
The total of 3 million hectares or one-third of Ukraine’s total forested areas have been affected, and losses were termed irreversible. in some cases. About one-third of Ukrainian territory requires mine clearing, which may take at least ten years.
I said the elites were unfatigued, the public was another matter.
The 5 Star movement received just 15% of the vote in the last election and does not rule the country.
I wonder if Elon Musk the richest man in the world can be described as one of the elite and was not his call for peace talks with actual concrete proposals an example of the Ukraine Fatigue.
He may well be the only one to put his head above the parapet but I am sure there are many other CEOs who seek a swift peace. Of course, I don’t consider Raytheon and the other armament corporations to be included. They do hope for another forever war.
But sooner or later other corporations will be obliged to place their shareholder interests above Ukraine especially if the present sanctions continue to prove an ineffective deterrent.
The USA can as easily withdraw support as they did to their allies in Afghanistan and the Kurds in Syria. Loyalty is not a virtue for US president.
“I wonder if Elon Musk the richest man in the world can be described as one of the elite and was not his call for peace talks with actual concrete proposals an example of the Ukraine Fatigue.”
The political elite.
“The USA can as easily withdraw support as they did to their allies in Afghanistan and the Kurds in Syria. Loyalty is not a virtue for US president.”
No, they can’t because a loss is a loss for NATO and would probably lead to the disintegration of the organisation which Washington will not allow.
November 7, 2022 at 10:00 pm #235850
TrueScotsman
Participant
How many times must I tell you Alan?! The Guardian isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. The talk of pushing for Zelensky to negotiate is a sham.
——————————————————————————————————————————————–The Moon of Alabama uses The Guardian as one of its new sources, and they use Bloomberg, Fox, The New York Times, the Washington Post, ICH which is a conspiracy news center, and others capitalists media
“The Moon of Alabama uses The Guardian as one of its new sources, and they use Bloomberg, Fox, The New York Times, the Washington Post, ICH which is a conspiracy news center, and others capitalists media”
And how does he use those sources? To ridicule them or does he take them seriously? That is the question. My guess, mostly the former.
“The talk of pushing for Zelensky to negotiate is a sham.”
The US has dropped allies in the past once they are no longer needed. Were that to be the case in the future with Zelensky, it wouldn’t be any different. They obviously still have a use for him.
There’s a lot of debate about ‘sources’ of information in this discussion. As far as I’m aware there are no independent journalists covering the conflict. The only news we get is either from ’embedded’ journalists (who can only report what the military allows them to see) and a bunch of reporters huddled in a hotel bar in Kiev spouting whatever the pentagon wants them to say. I’m sure it’s the same on the Russian side. As ever it will be up to historians to try and sort out the ‘truth’ after it is all over – what we can be sure of is that the lies will be coming from both sides.
Two points of interest – is it the Party case that the old Russian empire was ‘betrayed’ by its elite contrary to the wishes of its people? I had always thought that the relatively peaceful transition to the traditional ‘bourgeois’ rule was due to the widespread contempt for the ruling ‘nomenklatura’ and their lies by the people? Not that it really matters since what was important was that the oppressive Russian empire was destroyed. I’m surprised that a comrade on here referred to it as the ‘Soviet Union’ as I thought that the Bolsheviks had destroyed all the soviets decades before?
Yes, the only use for TrueStalinist on this forum is as a source of Russian government propaganda. Since RT and Sputnik are banned we can’t access this directly. We just get NATO and Ukrainian propaganda (as spread by newspapers like the Guardian). Of course we are not taken in by either side, but it is still useful to know what their propaganda is saying.
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