Russian Tensions
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They may appear off-topic but the messages you complain about relate as I see it to the issue of nationalism, sovereignty, national liberation, imperialism and anti-imperialism, which are all subjects connected to the causes of the Ukrainian war and some are aspects that you yourself have raised in past posts (if I recollect correctly)
However, what concerns me about the moderation is the possible breaching of Rule 6
“Do not make repeated postings of the same or similar messages to the same thread, or to multiple threads or forums (‘cross-posting’). Do not make multiple postings within a thread that could be consolidated into a single post (‘serial posting’)…”Some posters (perhaps even myself) may be guilty of transgressing that rule. So try and restrain one’s enthusiasm and exercise a bit more self-control. It is a long enough thread as it is. Let’s not add too many extraneous posts if we can.
“ThomaS More asked “TS, why not Pol Pot? He had the full support of the CPC.”
so never mind appealing to the moderator, just answer the question, do you (did you) agree with the line to support Pol Pot taken by the Communist Party of China (the party you state you support). Simple yes or no, really.”
To be honest, I am not informed enough on the topic to go either way. Obviously I’ve heard all the horror stories but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if these were just made up. Some think they are. I’d certainly be surprised if this was the first time the bourgeoisie propaganda machine was telling the truth about a socialist government.
“Presumably, TS, as an “anti imperialist” you also supported the Taliban in their defeat of Western Imperialists?”
No, I don’t support Islamo-fascism so I don’t support the Taliban. But neither did I support the NATO invasion of the country. Did you support NATO’s invasion?
“What did national liberation independence bring? The immediate invasion of its neighbours. The oppressed very quickly transform into the oppressor.”
You conveniently leave out the US sponsored coup that overthrew Sukarno and installed a fascist military dictatorship. A lie of omission is still lie. No pudding for you!
When Indonesia became independent in 1949, West Papua did not join the country. West Papua is geographically, ethnically and culturally very different to Indonesia.
The facts are – Sukarno initiated the invasion of West Papua with Operation Trikora, long before the coup against him. West Papua was eventually incorporated into Indonesia in 1969 with both US and USSR support after a rigged referendum.
Today there exists a Free Papua Movement.
Sukarno was a dictator. When he was overthrown by Suharto, his power-base, the Communist Party was destroyed with perhaps half a million of its members murdered and millions more jailed.
Over-simplification of the political situation doesn’t bring clariffication.
“The facts are – Sukarno initiated the invasion of West Papua with Operation Trikora, long before the coup against him.”
You’re correct. My bad. You can have your pudding now.
“No, I don’t support Islamo-fascism so I don’t support the Taliban. But neither did I support the NATO invasion of the country. Did you support NATO’s invasion?”
_____________________________________________________________After all this time on this forum, it is astonishing that TS can even ask this question. Of course, we don’t support NATO or any other capitalist bloc including Putin’s Russia. It is the only sane and socialist response one can give. A plague on all their houses. To hell with all their nationalist warmongering. Nationalism is a toxic mental disease that needs to be expelled from the body politic of the working class
Arundhati Roy, the Indian novelist, comments on the Ukrainian war.
Full speech
https://thewire.in/rights/arundhati-roy-stuart-hall-memorial-lectureextracts
https://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2022/11/arundhati-roy-on-ukraine-war.htmlArundhati Roy summed up the Left’s dilemma as “tortuous yoga asanas – some pretty drastic seeing and unseeing – depending on where you have decided to place yourself.”
She added: “Many on the Left cannot find it in themselves to call out Russia’s invasion of the Ukraine. They believe that Ukrainian outrage against Russia has been entirely confected and cultivated by Western imperialism.”
A view of the Indian left-wing attitude to the war here.
https://countercurrents.org/2022/11/leftist-response-to-the-war-in-ukraine/
Oligarch renounces Russian citizenship over Ukraine war.
‘Wez, far from being sympathetic to us, it’s the Left who are responsible for damaging the word SOCIALISM so much that it’s well-nigh unusable.’
TM – I agree. However all of my friends are lefty/liberal types and we can tolerate each others politics because of the shared absence of racism, xenophobia, belief in religion, sexism, nationalism, belief in capital punishment etc. Does this make them more politically progressive? I know this means creating another thread if we are to continue the debate.
‘Looks like the Brits were responsible for the Nord Stream pipeline attacks.’
As TS likes to lecture people about using unbiased sources I thought I’d check this one out.
The website is run by Larry C Johnson who describes himself as a veteran of the CIA and the State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism. He appears to be a Trumpite and an anti-vaxxer. An example of his style is:
‘The Brits are behaving a bit like a sex crazed school boy desperate to experience intercourse but, due to excess enthusiasm and carelessness, is incapable of finding a happy ending.’
Now we know where TS has plagiarised his writing style from.
Larry’s source for this Brit story seems to be the Hal Turner show. Hal Turner turns out to be a US far-right blogger and convicted felon, Holocaust denier, white supremacist and conspiracy theorist who spent 2 years in prison for demanding the assassination of government officials and threatening 3 federal judges.
Never mind his argumentative evasions, you’ve got to admire the balls-out effrontery of someone who comes on here to criticise our use of western sources and then dredges up sources like this.
He is taking the piss and you all know it. I’m amazed you bother with him. There are far better ways to help the socialist project than wasting time on self-indulgent trolls. If you want, I can suggest some.
Wez, it wasn’t “lefty liberal types” I was thinking of, but the “hard left”, who call themselves Marxists. Of course, labourism has also distorted the word ‘socialism’ to mean nationalisation, but the hard left are worse than that by supporting red fascist totalitarianism.
“As TS likes to lecture people about using unbiased sources I thought I’d check this one out.”
Liz Truss’ leaked comments are all over the internet. So your diatribe amounts to nothing but ad hominem.
P J Shannon is totally correct, I do not know why you are wasting your time, this thread is only a joke, it has lost its seriousness, and this thread is his personal catharsis. Most of those sources are conducted by right wingers, nationalists and supporters of Donald trump who are also supporter of Vladimir Putin, this one that Shannon have mentioned is only a ultra right winger felon, many of those theories are also supported by the reactionary followers of QAnon. They are followers of conspiracionist theories, antivaxxers, Holocaust denier, antisemite, anticommunists, supporters of wars and violence. The problem with this thread is that every time that a participant post a message he/she will be insulted or name calling
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