Russian Tensions
November 2024 › Forums › General discussion › Russian Tensions
Tagged: to manipulate
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October 29, 2022 at 7:47 pm #235191AnonymousInactive
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63437212
‘Massive’ drone attack on Black Sea Fleet – RussiaBBC News
Ukraine has carried out a “massive” drone attack on the Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port city of Sevastopol, damaging one warship, Russia says.
Nine drones were used, a top official said. Ukraine has not commented.
Without providing evidence, Russia accused British troops of being involved in Saturday’s attack – and in blowing up gas pipelines last month.
In its response, the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) said Russia was “peddling false claims of an epic scale”.
Russia said the ships targeted in Saturday’s attack were involved in the internationally-brokered deal to allow grain exports from Ukrainian ports and hours later announced that it was suspending its participation in it.October 29, 2022 at 11:21 pm #235192alanjjohnstoneKeymasterInterestingly, the narrative has switched from the CIA and US complicity to the UK.
Is it that Russia hopes to have more Republican Trumpist friends after the American midterm elections?
Was it 007 James Bond in the Baltic Sea? It is not beyond the realms of possibility.
Did British specialists offer Ukraine satellite information and guidance for the drone attack on Russia’s fleet. Again, it is not impossible.
We just won’t know for sure.
If the Russians are, then why not produce the proof?
Of course, if they did, it leaves them with a bit of a conundrum.
If the UK was involved in this blatant act of war, Russia would have to respond directly against the UK so as not to lose face. That would mean an attack on a NATO country, the last thing they would wish to do.
They fully understand the futility of not going to the UN and the court of public opinion.
So if the UK (or any other NATO nation) is genuinely implicated, the Russians will sweep it under the rug.
But honestly, what do I know? International relations and foreign diplomacy are not on my CV. Like everybody else, i can only guess.
October 29, 2022 at 11:27 pm #235193alanjjohnstoneKeymasterIs blaming Russia part of the UK diversionary tactic in this game of spies and sabotage?
October 30, 2022 at 12:28 am #235196TrueScotsmanBlocked“For the benefit of our ignorant anti-socialist “True Scotsman”…”
Lol. Doesn’t say anything about not having leaders.
October 30, 2022 at 12:46 am #235197alanjjohnstoneKeymasterAn interesting article on who blew up the Nord Stream pipeline
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/10/29/question-still-bubbles-who-blew-nordstream-pipeline
But as I say, even the most informed can only speculate.
October 30, 2022 at 1:23 am #235198alanjjohnstoneKeymasterWe should draw a distinction between a leader-less movement and a leader-free movement.
If one wishes to show Marx’s attitude towards leaders, then it is simple enough to look at his role in the Communist League and the First International. He declined to assume any mantle of the leader nor to impose his will. His authority came from his arguments made within these organisations, not from any office he democratically held. He often acted as a mediator, even between those he opposed such as the Proudhonists, Bakuninists and the English trade unionists.
As I said, there are always going to be influential individuals.
An example is Eugene Debs, a presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America in several elections.
Yet it was only at the end of his political career that he held an executive position within his Party.
If we think about the Russian Revolution. The Bolshevik “workers’ government” was composed of professional revolutionaries and members of the intelligensia ranging from the aristocratic, like Chicherin, to the bureaucratic, like Lenin and a daughter of a general, Kollontai, or one of the landed bourgeoisie (Smilga), the commercial bourgeois (Joffe) and the higher industrial bourgeois (Pyatakov). These are the sort of people who are used to being a ruling class. The only prominent worker was Shliapnikov.
This is what Marx cautioned in the quote i gave when he questioned permitting members of the bourgoisie to run the workers’ party as
To return to Eugene Debs
“I never had much faith in leaders. I am willing to be charged with almost anything, rather than to be charged with being a leader. I am suspicious of leaders, and especially of the intellectual variety. Give me the rank and file every day in the week. If you go to the city of Washington, and you examine the pages of the Congressional Directory, you will find that almost all of those corporation lawyers and cowardly politicians, members of Congress, and mis-representatives of the masses — you will find that almost all of them claim, in glowing terms, that they have risen from the ranks to places of eminence and distinction. I am very glad I cannot make that claim for myself. I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from the ranks.”
And another time he said:
“I am not a labor leader. I don’t want you to follow me or anyone else. If you are looking for a Moses to lead you out of the capitalist wilderness you will stay right where you are. I would not lead you into this promised land if I could, because if I could lead you in, someone else could lead you out.”October 30, 2022 at 10:36 am #235209WezParticipantTrueScotsman turns out to be a true Tory with his love of leaders, authoritarian social structures and war. What a joke that he considers himself a socialist of some kind. He continues to do us service by reminding anyone who still believes that the left are ‘progressive’ in some way that many of them are reactionary to the core. Cheers TS.
- This reply was modified 2 years ago by Wez.
October 30, 2022 at 10:43 am #235211alanjjohnstoneKeymasterFrench media dismisses Russia’s dirty bomb claim
October 30, 2022 at 11:05 am #235212AnonymousInactiveThe sp of the us and the slp of America we’re not leaderless organizations
October 30, 2022 at 12:07 pm #235213Thomas_MoreParticipantWhen were the Left progressive, Wez?
October 30, 2022 at 12:18 pm #235214AnonymousInactiveOnly the french jacobin opposing the aristocracy
October 30, 2022 at 12:39 pm #235216Thomas_MoreParticipantBut mainly slaughtering proles!
Aristocrats guillotined 6%.
Labourers, ” 80%
The rest, poor clerics, poets, scientists, writers, asocials.I repeat, when was the Left progressive?
- This reply was modified 2 years ago by Thomas_More.
October 30, 2022 at 12:53 pm #235218AnonymousInactiveCheck the term progressive and you will see that it is a bourgeoise political current, therefore, they all have been part of the bourgeoise movement including the jacobin They have never been part of the socialist movement
October 30, 2022 at 2:14 pm #235224Thomas_MoreParticipantThat’s right.
October 30, 2022 at 2:20 pm #235225AnonymousInactiveThe so called left communists they were attacked by Lenin and some of them support Leninism and the so called socialist revolution They are birds from the same nest
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