Russian Tensions
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“Workers do not need leaders”
Hahahahahahahaha!
And how’s that working for your “party”? All seven of you. Lol
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The simple answer is that you do not know Marx’s self-emancipation of the working class: The emancipation of the working class must be the act of the workers themselves, it was expressed by Marx in the Holy Family and the International“The proletariat … is compelled as proletariat to abolish itself and thereby its opposite,
private property, which determines its existence, and which makes it proletariat. …
When the proletariat is victorious, it by no means becomes the absolute side of society,
for it is victorious only by abolishing itself and its opposite. Then the proletariat
disappears as well as the opposite which determines it, private property.”
http://class-warfare.blogspot.com/2005/03/only-sheep-need-leaders.html. Only sheep need leaders“You are equating the validity of an argument with the number of supporters it attracts. Therefore according to your daft logic, there was quite a lot to be said in favour of the Nazis and that, indeed, you would consider yourself to be some extent a Nazi as well – at least to the extent that you believed they were right which they must have been having garnered 37% of the electoral support”
Lol, ideology is not a true/false proposition, it’s a matter of values. You are comparing apples and oranges. Go back to philosophy for kindergarteners class.
“The simple answer is that you do not know Marx’s self-emancipation of the working class: The emancipation of the working class must be the act of the workers themselves”
And where does Marx say that workers can not have leaders?
“The Panama Paper does show traces of Gaddafi’s money and they also show three women linked to the money of Putin”
“Traces”? “Linked”? Lol. Like I said, Putin isn’t even mentioned. You wanna believe in fairy tales and conspiracy theories be my guest. I deal in the world of facts.
DS- “ And where does Marx say that workers can not have leaders?”
Oh Lordy, has this Fwit even read a single word of Marx’s work????
The simple answer is that you do not know Marx’s self-emancipation of the working class: The emancipation of the working class must be the act of the workers themselves”
And where does Marx say that workers can not have leaders?
If you were a lawyer you would lose all the cases in court because you do not know how to use the Socratic method of analysis ( IRAC ) The answer is right there in front of you, the expression self-emancipation is more than enough. The question or the issue would be Where does Lenin say that you need leaders? The question of workers’ self-emancipation and leadership is one of the great differences between Marxism, and Leninism. The problem is that you do not know the body of ideas of Marx
TS’s stance is similar to that of the conspiracy theorists, who discard everything someone says because of one thing they don’t like.
They too are ideology-followers, not analytical thinkers.
One, a flat-earther, was enthusing to me that there are THOUSANDS of flat-earthers, “proving” in itself that the Earth is flat! 😀Thomas_More
Participant
TS’s stance is similar to that of the conspiracy theorists, who discard everything someone says because of one thing they don’t like.
They too are ideology-followers, not analytical thinkers.
One, a flat-earther, was enthusing to me that there are THOUSANDS of flat-earthers, “proving” in itself that the Earth is flat! 😀==============================================================================
Conspiracy theory vs socialist logic
“Lol, ideology is not a true/false proposition, it’s a matter of values. You are comparing apples and oranges. Go back to philosophy for kindergarteners class.”
_________________________________________________________Yes and according to your “kindgartener” logic your own values must fit quite comfortably with a Nazi outlook which must be considered “right” by your standards given the sizeable electoral support the Nazis attracted. Mind you I am not surprised. Your bootlicking, craven support for the disgusting authoritarian capitalist regime of Putin and his fellow oligarchs speaks volumes. If anyone is a dupe of ruling class propaganda it is you TS
“And where does Marx say that workers can not have leaders?”
_________________________________________________________For the benefit of our ignorant anti-socialist “True Scotsman”….
“As for ourselves, there is, considering all our antecedents, only one course open to us. For almost 40 years we have emphasised that the class struggle is the immediate motive force of history and, in particular, that the class struggle between bourgeoisie and proletariat is the great lever of modern social revolution; hence we cannot possibly co-operate with men who seek to eliminate that class struggle from the movement. At the founding of the International we expressly formulated the battle cry: The emancipation of the working class must be achieved by the working class itself. Hence we cannot co-operate with men who say openly that the workers are too uneducated to emancipate themselves, and must first be emancipated from above by philanthropic members of the upper and lower middle classes. If the new party organ is to adopt a policy that corresponds to the opinions of these gentlemen, if it is bourgeois and not proletarian, then all we could do — much though we might regret it — would be publicly to declare ourselves opposed to it and abandon the solidarity with which we have hitherto represented the German Party abroad. But we hope it won’t come to that. https://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/marx/works/1879/09/18.htm
The question of political leadership isn’t too hard to understand. We are not denying that there are men and women who possess unique qualities in oratory, writing and organising.
The relation of “the Party,” to the masses plays a large role among the Left discussion. The importance and indispensability of the vanguard party are accepted as given. The militants who call themselves the vanguard believe they must direct the class struggle. Party leaders and the cadres of the vanguard make the case for leadership simple. Working people are too busy to have opinions or engage in political action. There’s a need for someone to dedicate their time and energies to adequately represent the people. What is needed is professional, full-time advocates for our interests. It’s only logical that the enlightened intelligentsia, understanding better the processes of power, represent us on our behalf. Too many workers don’t have the right political consciousness, and if given too much democracy they will make counter-revolutionary decisions that sabotage the revolution. The “masses” just can’t be trusted is the conclusion.
The Socialist Party do not see ourselves as yet another leadership, but merely as an instrument of the working class. We function to help generalise their experience of the class struggle, to make a total critique of their condition and of its causes, and to develop the mass revolutionary consciousness necessary if society is to be totally transformed.
We reject an organisational role. What we want people to come to is the realisation that they should take over their workplaces and communities, put themselves in a position to control all of the decisions that affect them directly, and run things themselves. There is a big difference between an organisation that produces propaganda and helps promote the popular will compared to a vanguard seeking to gain power over the masses. Revolution will be a process of self-education. Without the active participation of the mass of working class in the fight for socialism, such a society cannot even be contemplated.
The Russian Revolution did stir the workers, a fact we freely acknowledge but we suffer the scorn because we did not recognise a socialist revolution took place. revolve around personalities and “leaders.” The Left is dominated by the concept of a vanguard of “professional revolutionists.” It is the responsibility of the vanguard to guide and lead their followers. They have the appeal of being conspiratorial in nature. They stir emotions with their “grassroots” activities of organizing demonstrations and protests on any and all questions, ranging from cheaper food, lower taxes, etc., to riots, etc., that will serve the interests of China or Russia. Their concepts of the “Dictatorship of the Proletariat” and the “Transitional Period” are reflected in what they call “Democratic Centralism.” The control of the organization is from the top, who inform the lower levels of membership of “the party line.”
We instead try to be a catalyst, the triggering agent that transforms ideas from bourgeois into revolutionary ones. We are told that we “must we have leaders to obtain our object to educate the workers politically and economically towards socialism ”
But teachers are not leaders any more than writers or speakers are leaders. Their function is to spread knowledge and understanding so that the workers, the conscious majority, may emancipate themselves. Quite different from that the claim we must have leaders (great men) to direct followers (blind supporters) into a socialist society. Socialism is not the result of blind faith in their “betters”
“…For almost 40 years we have emphasised that the class struggle is the immediate motive force of history and, in particular, that the class struggle between bourgeoisie and proletariat is the great lever of modern social revolution; hence we cannot possibly co-operate with men who seek to eliminate that class struggle from the movement. At the founding of the International we expressly formulated the battle cry: The emancipation of the working class must be achieved by the working class itself. Hence we cannot co-operate with men who say openly that the workers are too uneducated to emancipate themselves, and must first be emancipated from above by philanthropic members of the upper and lower middle classes. If the new party organ is to adopt a policy that corresponds to the opinions of these gentlemen, if it is bourgeois and not proletarian, then all we could do — much though we might regret it — would be publicly to declare ourselves opposed to it…”
https://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/marx/works/1879/09/18.htm
TS obviously enjoys keeping company with us. Maybe he thinks he is getting our backs up, rattling our cage, etc. Quite the opposite. He keeps me entertained.
Let’s hope he learns something – which he won’t of course admit to – from members’ contributions here.
German media debunks Russia’s “dirty bomb” pics. I await Russian media to fact-check the debunk.
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-russias-false-case-for-a-dirty-bomb-in-ukraine/a-63590306
However, we shouldn’t fall into complacency. Both sides could unintentionally trigger a radioactive disaster.
Yet another reason why peace talks should begin asap.
If the capitalists exterminate us and themselves, how are they going to make profits and enjoy their own profits?
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