Russian Tensions
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‘Not one of you is my equal intellectually. I guess I won’t be sharpening my blade much more on this wetstone. Do try harder folks.’
TS -Do you really believe that you’re exceptional in some way? You’re just a run-of-the-mill leftie with a hard-on for Russia. We meet your kind all the time. Recently we had a guy on here who was obsessed with China. For him this one party police state could do no wrong – pathetic really. I doubt if your ego would allow you to admit to the existence of a superior intellect. Anyway if you are merely a troll having fun I must admit to perversely enjoying your nonsense.
I explained the constitutional position of the Polish government that refute’s Furr’s case that there was not a government.
It was 17 September 1939 when Mościcki, who was then in the small town of Kuty (now Ukraine) near the southern Polish border, issued a proclamation about his plan to transfer power to appoint Władysław Raczkiewicz as his successor. That was the day USSR invade.
The USSR invaded from the east during the early hours of 17 September. During the late hours of that day, the Polish government crossed the Polish–Romanian border.120,000 Polish troops withdrew to neutral Romania and Hungary and the majority of those formed Polish Armed Forces in the West in France and the United Kingdom. Roumania escorted the Polish gold reserves to safeguard it from interception by the Soviet Union.
The Polish strategy of continuing the war is explained here but the USSR invasion thwarted it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Bridgehead
It was the legitimate government and the USSR acknowledged it in 1941 when Barbarossa happened.
You suggest that Poland’s government should have relocated to the USSR. How did that pan out?
No point in continuing your revisionist history conspiracy. The Katyn Massacre was perpetuated by the Soviets. The documents are there and accepted as genuine by scholars and more importantly the Russian government. Furr is an out-lier and most likely an outright liar. He is pseudo-historian cherry-picking his evidence to prove a hypothesis instead of following evidence to develop one.
The CPGB was following the instructions of Comintern in being anti-war at first. Actually, it was pro-war initially but reversed its position to anti-war when told by Comintern.
“Should the Soviet Union have allowed the Nazis to occupy the entirety of former Polish territory? Yes or no?”
My answer is the same as if Germany had invaded Britain. It is the same as I have for the Ukrainians facing occupation by Russia which I have already stated. The answer is yes. 20 million lives were lost. There are many ways of resisting oppression by civil disobedience when there is a determined opposition. Thomas More has already mentioned Denmark’s response where Jews went unmolested and did not need to wear the yellow star.
No point in referring to GPO and the Holocaust and other secret plans as justification for the war. Those were not the motives but the consequences of it.
The Nazis managed to maintain control with the propaganda line that it was a war of defence, just as all other belligerent nations do.
I remind you of Goering’s comment
“Why of course the people don’t want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don’t want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”If the enemy does not fight, Goebbels would not have been able to convince Germany to make war.
We have had right wingers and defender of Donald Trump who have said that they have superior intellectuals levels, and we have had individuals who have called us champaign socialists because we do not support pro capitalist leaders, at the end the teachers become students
In this party we have had all kind of peoples from different trades and with different academic knowledge including person with doctorate degrees, but we do not have leaders and cadres and central committees.
Many have insulted us but they have not been blocked or rejected, if they go to one of those Leninists, trotskyists or stalinist forum they would be booted out, even more, most messages must go thru a filter and they must be approved
Richard Wolff is a famous doctor in Economics graduated from Harvard and he said that he did not know anything about Economic until he read Marx capital. When I came to the WSM forum, I thought that I knew something, then I discovered that I knew nothing and everything that I had learned was distorted and I had to start from the ground up, and accept that I was mistaken, and I learned from the members of the socialist party
“TS -Do you really believe that you’re exceptional in some way?”
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king and you lot are about as blind as Ray Charles after quafing a bottle of overproof rum.
Pretty much only Alan has the stones to actually argue anything substantive and he does that so poorly I wonder if he’s had a recent traumatic brain injury. The rest of you just bandy about insults or name drop long dead nobodies. This thread is about the conflict in Ukraine for fucks sake but it barely rates a mention. You’re like a bunch of toddlers distracted by mum’s car keys.
Germany said that it can’t stop a shipment of Russian uranium destined for French nuclear plants from being processed at a site in Germany because atomic fuel isn’t covered by European Union sanctions on Russia.
“We have no legal grounds to prevent the transport of uranium from Russia, because the sanctions imposed by the EU due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine exempt the import of nuclear fuel … to the EU from import bans,” said a spokesman for Germany’s Environment Ministry, Andreas Kuebler.
Ad hominem retorts are actually an inferior method of debating and they appear to be a significant part of your “intellectual” armoury, TS.
The much respected Scott Ritter comments Russia is no longer fighting a Ukrainian army equipped by NATO, but a NATO army manned by Ukrainians.
SCOTT RITTER: Why Russia Will Still Win, Despite Ukraine’s Gains
“The Ukrainian battle plan has “Made in Brussels” stamped all over it. The force composition was determined by NATO, as was the timing of the attacks and the direction of the attacks. NATO intelligence carefully located seams in the Russian defenses and identified critical command and control, logistics, and reserve concentration nodes that were targeted by Ukrainian artillery, which operates on a fire control plan created by NATO.”
Ritter confirms what many have said – It is a proxy war against Russia.
He speculates various scenarios.
“Ukraine either exhausts its will to fight and die, NATO exhausts its ability to continue supplying the Ukrainian military, or Russia exhausts its willingness to fight an inconclusive conflict.”
His analysis is:
“I still believe the end game remains the same — Russia will win…the Kharkov offensive is, at best, a Pyrrhic victory, one that does not change the fundamental reality that Russia is winning, and will win, the conflict in Ukraine.”
I think the moderator must make a decision because this forum was created in order to discuss about socialism but it was not created to get insults and being treated like little children
Moscow’s Anarchist Black Cross
https://libcom.org/article/interview-anarchist-black-cross-moscow
There may only be a few but anti-war activists should be publicised.
Moderator Statement.
MS, I am reluctant to intervene.
True Scotsman may well be transgressing the forum guidelines with personal attacks but not sufficiently malicious to warrant me banning him (and I speak as a person who has been the target of his insults.)
But True Scotsman can take this message as his first warning to exercise caution in his language and advice that he should begin to mend his ways. So be warned, True Scotsman and moderate your tone. It is not such a too demanding thing to expect – civility in exchanges.
A troll succeeds because others feed him.
If participants wish for his disappearance from the forum, the easiest resolution is not to reply to him and he will soon depart.
Nor are participants obliged to read his posts.
We can talk ABOUT him, but not TO him.
I am proud of this forum’s open approach and even True Scotsman acknowledges it is unique in permitting him to contribute.
That is my moderator’s decision.
As a participant in the forum, I will endeavour to continue to rebut his claims. It may not be enough to change his entrenched conspiratorial views but other visitors can judge for themselves.
L bird has been banned for smaller violation. This situation has existed for a long time under different thread and probably under different surname I miss yahoo groups because it was easier to take care of this problem
I have been insulted in several times by members of the socialist party in this forum in front of everybody and nothing happened and the last time my son read it and he decided no to join the party
Rubbish. Your ideology is liberalism couched in pseudo-leftist rhetoric. But at the end of the day, garden variety liberalism. Go on, link to another Guardian of BBC article. I just can’t wait to hear the real dope.
I don’t know if he believes any of what he comes out with, or whether he’s just getting off on trolling us.
The above expression shows what you are saying, the concept of liberal is very popular within the ultra-right wing movement and they do not even know the real definition of liberalism and leftism.
1) Liberalism does not exist any longer, and it did not even exist in its purity in England ( Manchesterism ) and France, and it was a form adopted by capitalism which advocated for no intervention of the state in the economic affair in the society.
We have written extensively about the same concept and the last one was titled: The problem is not neoliberalism, blame it on capitalism, most USA workers think that their society is divided between liberals and conservatives instead of workers and capitalists, it just hides the class struggle.
The SPGB/WSM does not support the intervention of the state in the economic affairs, we support a society without state, and without leaders, therefore we are not liberals.
2) Leftism is a term which has many meaning and definitions, and Lenin himself rejected the German Left Communists and the ICC has a term known as the the left of capital indicating that there is a sector of the left that is socialist/communist, in the USA the terms is wrongly used because they even applied it to some right wings groups including the democratic party, and they also call them socialists.
The socialist party has written many articles about the left, and for us leftism is related to reformism, we support reforms but we are not reformists, therefore the term seudo leftist is not applicable to us either.
Some groups call us utopian anarchists, but they do not know what they are talking about and we have articles describing what utopia is and our difference with the Anarchists, although we support a world society without state
I am sorry you do not agree with my moderation, MS.
If others also support your request then I will reconsider my position.
But I have always believed that the strength of the Socialist Party has been that it freely permits criticism and allows contrary views to be expressed.
LBird was never banned but had his posting rights suspended (several times I recall)
If you ever feel you are being harassed, then message me and I will take action to end any abuse.
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