Russian Tensions
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“Katyn Forest and Furr’s historical revisionism of the massacre begins here”
The thread was closed before I was able to rebut many of your fanciful claims. Just saying.
A member has made a special study of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the reasons behind the bombings.
Part 1
Part2
He specifically mentions the point TS makes.
“…A number of ‘revisionist’ historians confidently assert that the primary motive was to gain diplomatic advantage: a powerful political lever allowing the US to dominate future negotiations with the Soviet Union. They make a powerful case and undoubtedly this was a major consideration in the formulation of atomic policy. But this could have been accomplished with just a single bomb and, surely, not necessarily on a heavily-populated city…”
Anyways, weren’t Russian intelligence already well aware through a network of espionage about the development and capabilities of the atomic bomb sucha= as by Klaus Fuchs although the discovery were only made in the 1950s
They were two scientific experiments made on human beings, and they were two different types of bombs with two different results. They built two cities similar to Hiroshima and Nagasaki before dropping the bombs. The bombs were small compared to the actual ones they were similar to the tactical bombs of our time. The aeroplanes were able to cross japan because there were not any fighters’ resistance and any anti-air guns. the Japanese army was already completely defeated when they dropped the bombs and before that, they made several proposals for peace and the USA rejected all of them, they did not want a conditional surrender, they wanted to take all the market, territories and spheres of influences of the Japanese capitalists, by that time the USA was an industrial might and the capitalists were heavily taxed ( 85%) for the state to create an enormous accumulation of surplus value
“‘The Russian army was not able to defeat the Taliban”
Probably because they never fought the Taliban.
“and they do not have the military resources to fight against NATO forces in a conventional war’”
Who says so? Don’t listen to them. They’ve no idea what they’re talking about.
The soviets and Stalin knew about the atomic bombs and the Manhattan Project, they were more aware than Truman about the bombs. They had a big network of spies and the USA and England did not know about it. The USA did not want to use the bombs for diplomatic manoeuvres, they wanted to see the scientific results of the money invested in the Manhattan Project on a heavy civilian populated area, they dropped two because both were different bombs
We understand that nowadays, MS. But in 1945, the Americans believed their secret was still safe and the Russians were in the dark about it.
Only with later revelations was it learned that American (and British) security leaked like a sieve.
Mark Selden, a historian from Cornell University suggests “Impressing Russia was more important than ending the war in Japan,” but at the same time also raises other motives. Truman was also worried that he would be accused of wasting money on the Manhattan Project to build the first nuclear bombs, if the bomb was not used, he adds.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7706-hiroshima-bomb-may-have-carried-hidden-agenda/
I’m quite willing to accept that demonstrating its power to the Russians could be part of the reason that Japan’s surrender offers were rejected. That also simple revenge was also involved in the decision to destroy two Japanese cities along with the firebombing of the other cities.
So, Just to check TS, do you approve of Putin’s discriminatory stance towards non heterosexual people or not? Pretty straight question, should provide a pretty straight answer (no pun intended)
Stalin also persecuted sexual minorities, and outlawed Freudian and Reichian psychotherapy, as did the Nazis.
“do you approve of Putin’s discriminatory stance towards non heterosexual people or not?”
Which policies specifically are you speaking of?
TS, well just for starters there is the speech Putin made in February 2022:
“they sought to destroy our traditional values and force on us their false values that would erode us, our people from within, the attitudes they have been aggressively imposing on their countries, attitudes that are directly leading to degradation and degeneration, because they are contrary to human nature. This is not going to happen.” Do you, TS, believe that homosexuality is contrary to human nature and that it leads to degradation and degeneration?
in 2013 The Russian state passed a “gay propaganda” (Their quote) ban arguing that promotion of LGBT rights was harmful to children. (Do you think that the promotion of LGBT rights is harmful to children?)
The Russian Justice Ministry retorted that the “anti-gay propaganda” laws “have the sole purpose of protecting morals and health of children.” Cleary this conflates homosexuality with child abuse.
Do you agree with Putin that children can be “taught that a boy can become a girl and vice versa” is monstrous and “on the verge of a crime against humanity.” Quoted and backed up with video footage by the FT.
in 2015 Russia also introduced a driving ban prohibiting people with “sexual disorders” including people who were transexual or transgender. Do you approve those bans TS?
Do you, TS, agree with the statement of Yelena Mizulina Chairman of The Duma Committee on Family, Women and Children, that “Traditional sexual relations are relations between a man and a woman. These relations need special protection”.
Perhaps you also agree with her stance on decriminalising Domestic Violence catagorised as “first assaults which cause less serious injuries”
“TS, Having already explained to us previously that the war began in 2014 in a civil war against the two breakaway regions and that the Minsk Talks had broken down, can you explain why it took Putin all those years to invade?”
Putin, by which you mean the Kremlin, did not invade Ukraine, it is liberating it from NATOstani influence.
There are a number or reasons why the Kremlin moved to liberate Ukraine when it did. Principally because of the NATOstani rejection of Russia’s security proposals and of the imminent Ukrainian ethnic cleansing operation in the Donbass. The fact that Zelensky was calling for its being armed with nukes may also have played some role.
“There is much evidence of a low-level war against Russian-speaking inhabitants of Luhansk and Donetz, yet it also took Putin many years to officially recognise their independence.”
This from Quora…
“In 1918 in the course of the Civil War the majorly Russian-Cossack population in Novorossia proclaimed Autonomous Soviet Republics (at the same time as the Whites proclaimed Kuban Republic in Yekaterinodar/today’s Krasnodar), but those were soon incorporated into the RSFSR as ordinary regions (it was hardly reasonable to keep the status of autonomy for people without any specific ethnic identity – it would be same as giving autonomy to London beefeaters or cabmen). By 1920 Lenin handed the coal-rich and industrialized Novorossia over to Ukraine to support her failing economy.
Donbass autonomy status was very short-lived and not sufficiently justified; Donbass didn’t have the status of autonomy in Ukraine and, despite low support to Ukrainian independence in 1991, Donbass didn’t attempt to secede from Ukraine in favor of joining the Union or re-inclusion in Russia. There was no history of active self-determination in Donbass prior to 2014, and as such no legal grounds for Russia to include Donetsk and Lugansk into Russia…
All in all, intervention in Donbass would constitute, and would be perceived as aggression and war. This is not what Russia is looking for. We acknowledge the Donbass political will and resolve, honor their citizenship, provide humanitarian help to population and treat the wounded in Russia’s medical facilities. But we do not invade (neither openly nor secretly), do not provide military aid and do not supply arms to Donbass because we cannot throw ourselves into another nation’s civil war.”
“Was ethnic-cleansing the real reason?”
It was one of the many reasons mentioned previously and certainly the most immediate.
“Doesn’t Russia have its own nazi problem with ultra-nationalism?”
“Russian law mandates punishment for inciting racial and ethnic hatred, and Nazi movements are outlawed in the country.”
https://www.rt.com/russia/denial-holocaust-criminalize-moves-russia-853/
In Ukraine on the other hand Neo-Nazi battalions openly serve in the armed forces.
“Or as we suggest, it was the broader Great Power rivalry of geo-politics in regard to economic and military alliances and the timing involved in those.”
A false dichotomy. Wars are rarely, if ever, fought over a single issue.
“That a proxy war is the reason that Western nations are subsidizing Ukraine’s war and are not urging peace talks.”
I concur with this statement. It is no secret and openly proclaimed in the west.
https://multipolarista.com/2022/03/24/us-official-ukraine-nato-proxy-war-russia/
“TS “So what was the Soviet Union to do after the Nazi invasion? Surrender? You must be joking?”
That is the same answer given by Zelensky.”
This is a statement so asinine I hope you have not made the mistake of reproducing. (Sigh) The Nazis were engaged in a war of extermination. Look up General Plan Ost and the Criminal Orders. The Russians, on the other hand, consider Ukrainians brother Slavs. This is not a war of extermination. This explains why the war is moving so slowly. Were Russia at war with a NATO country it would be a scorched earth campaign. Such is not the case. Most of the infantry fighting in Donbass is done by Donbass militias who want to preserve the lives of their fellow citizens.
“Nor does it explain why the Communist Parties, following Moscow’s party-line still opposed the war when war was declared in 1939 and several European countries were invaded in 1940.”
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/55809
The Soviets did all they could to prevent WW2 up to and including an offer to place a million man army on the Polish/German border. But the Poles refused, fearing they’d lose the land they’d seized from the USSR during the Civil war.
“It is a diatribe because you throw unsubstantiated slurs such as “you are an unprincipled and unctuous charlatan.” and “you are a coward, your answer is yes. You’d willingly walk into the oven because you have no spine.””
“If you cannot recognise the difference in the tone of my replies to you and your own, then sorry, but I pity you.”
It is I who pity you and your gaggle of Quixotic malcontents. You are doomed to whisper at walls the rest of your inglorious days. You deserve such contempt. You call the CIA your friends and shit on all actually existing socialism. I have no respect for you whatsoever.
“TS, well just for starters there is the speech Putin made in February 2022:
“they sought to destroy our traditional values and force on us their false values that would erode us, our people from within, the attitudes they have been aggressively imposing on their countries, attitudes that are directly leading to degradation and degeneration, because they are contrary to human nature. This is not going to happen.” Do you, TS, believe that homosexuality is contrary to human nature and that it leads to degradation and degeneration?”
I didn’t ask you about Putin’s beliefs on the subject. I asked you what specific laws you were alluding to.
“in 2013 The Russian state passed a “gay propaganda” (Their quote) ban arguing that promotion of LGBT rights was harmful to children. (Do you think that the promotion of LGBT rights is harmful to children?)”
So you are opposed to a law preventing the teaching of gay rights in schools? There was no teaching of gay rights when I went to school. I guess I was unaware that I was actually being oppressed. Were you taught “gay rights” when you were in school?
“The Russian Justice Ministry retorted that the “anti-gay propaganda” laws “have the sole purpose of protecting morals and health of children.” Cleary this conflates homosexuality with child abuse.”
I don’t see how. Homosexuality is not illegal in The Russian Federation. It is just not considered appropriate to teach children about the lifestyle.
“Do you agree with Putin that children can be “taught that a boy can become a girl and vice versa” is monstrous and “on the verge of a crime against humanity.” Quoted and backed up with video footage by the FT.”
His views are his own. Homosexuality is not illegal in the Russian Federation.
“in 2015 Russia also introduced a driving ban prohibiting people with “sexual disorders” including people who were transexual or transgender. Do you approve those bans TS?”
“ICD-10 especially stresses that sexual orientation by itself isn’t considered a personality disorder.”
It sounds like there’s an awful lot of leeway regarding the decree. Again, homosexuality is not criminalised in RF.
“Do you, TS, agree with the statement of Yelena Mizulina Chairman of The Duma Committee on Family, Women and Children, that “Traditional sexual relations are relations between a man and a woman. These relations need special protection”.”
What matters are the laws. Homosexuality is not illegal in RF.
“Perhaps you also agree with her stance on decriminalising Domestic Violence catagorised as “first assaults which cause less serious injuries””
Do stay on topic.
https://images.app.goo.gl/JQbEbzcMpM4VadTW9
“This is liberation, not a war!”
https://images.app.goo.gl/RNZUZTAjeDUwcY556
“Liberation.”
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