Police workers? Libcom.org/Aufhebengate controversy
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DJP says: "Trying to claim Drury or Aufheben is the leader of a movement of millions, as the article that Jondwhite posted is ridiculous." It certainly would have been ridiculous if I'd said that, but the quote clearly states, "the team of which Drury is a part potentially affects millions. " (from the original post). If DJP can't even read, it would be utterly illogical to even begin having a written discussion with him/her.What you say about the cops is utterly abstract and impractical crap: probably most rapists are exploited members of the working class also. As for the rest of what's been criticised here, I have no desire to get into a discussion with a wall of petrified ideas. This wall hides the fact that you have no desire to seriously contribute to the struggle against the old world but want merely a stodgy appearance of doing so. You "educators" need educating.
SamFantoSamotnaf wrote:What you say about the cops is utterly abstract and impractical crap: probably most rapists are exploited members of the working class also. As for the rest of what's been criticised here, I have no desire to get into a discussion with a wall of petrified ideas. This wall hides the fact that you have no desire to seriously contribute to the struggle against the old world but want merely a stodgy appearance of doing so. You "educators" need educating.Identifying class interests is utterly abstract and impractical crap, eh? A wall of petrified ideas? No desire to seriously contribute to the struggle? Like I said, you have all of your work ahead of you. Now, I'm pretty convinced that everything we've been saying about capitalism and the necessary means of overthrowing it for over a hundred years is as valid and correct as it was in 1904. But you say that we need educating. Presumably you also think that you're the man to educate us. Why don't you start by telling us what our attitude to the police ought properly to be?
As Bernard Shaw wrote, Anarchy is a game at which the police will beat you. They are the biggest bestest anarchists of them all. Fighting them is pointless and futile (and unnecessary), since the political machinery of state can be captured via the ballot box.Frankly, persuading the police to kill fewer people through soft-power tactics sounds like a good service to our class.
Steady on there YMS I think you are in danger of advocating reformism there.I suppose dropping the A-bombs on Japan helped save a lot of lives too?
Well, taking the traditional difference between reforms and reformism into account, I was just suggesting I can think of worse things for people to be doing than preventing loss of life. And, hell, when we take on state power some non-lethal ways of putting down "slave holder" revolts would come in handy…
YMSI take your point on board, you are right in pointing out the difference of reformism and particular reforms. I should have just said you support this particular policing reform. Sorry about that one.My problem with this issue, and it isn't that big a concern, is any so called class conscious revolutionary involved in helping the system police disgruntled workers may end up in a situ' where the research dictates the direction. In other words they may find themselves in a position where the client's needs change and the research continues in a different manipulative direction, one not originally considered by the researcher. Scientific research has a tendency to evolve.Imagine if such research eventually led to techniques that saw the police, instead of wielding batons, handing out candy canes that enabled them to control and silence dissent among the masses. Nobody would die, but the result would be just as potentially problematic for socialists and others seeking to organise resistance and change.At the end of the day, if people did not actively support capitalism, there would be no one to do the dirty work. Unfortunately for us, researchers and academics all to often prop up the ideology and machinery of capitalism.
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