Paris Attacks
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Not all French people are taken in by their government's crocodile tears about 'terrorism'.
BBC article about St. Denis wrote:"Right, solidarity… But don't you think they exaggerate the Paris attacks when there are more Syrians dying everyday?" This is what I heard in Saint Denis, a multicultural and multi-ethnic place with a population of Africans, Algerians, Indians, Chinese, Turkish and many other backgrounds….Celine Inerrakene and her friend Lemea Cau are both 17 and part of the banlieue generation.When I ask about the Paris attacks, Celine blames French government policy."I think there will be a third world war. But France has been asking for it because of its intervention in Syria," she says."The Paris attacks lasted three hours – but this happens everyday in Syria. And Palestinians are dying, too…."If you look closer at Syria, there are now nearly 250,000 dead there. It is about 160 dead per day. So, I am not shocked by these Paris attacks."….That separation from the rest of French society is highlighted by Nilgul, a 29-year-old ethnic Turkish woman born in Saint Denis.Much of the anger here dates back to France's war in Algeria from 1954-62, in which at least 60,000 Algerian civilians died, she suggests."Their problem is not Paris. The reason they're being radicalised might be their desire to take revenge for their parents," she believes…..http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34855612Clearly, some still remember '61.
I still think people might be drifting into the popular materialist analysis of ‘bad and mad’ people versus the not so bad people etc. ISIS is a Moony and scientologist type death cult created out of a massive infusion of monarchist oil money from the Gulf states; for a purpose. As a counterweight to ‘Iranian/Shia’ influence in the region; which really means the working model of nationalisation of the ‘surplus profits’ and income stream from oil extraction. The gulf states are as horrified at that idea as the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries in the US are of the concept of a national healthcare systems. The people that the ISIS ideology works on are marginalised with low self esteem within the capitalist framework. The ISIS ideology raises them to an exceptional elite and God’s chosen people which successfully ignores, trivialises and removes any disturbing self estimation based on economic position and provides an emotional release. You become a martyr to greater transcending cause, complete with a new found sense of solidarity and community with others which also relieves the sense of atomisation and isolation one can feel in modern society. (there can be bit of that in the leftist community if you feel you need to get an emotional handle on it?) What matters then, more than death itself, is that you are an Arian German, white Anglo Saxon English, a Jehova’s Witness, Japanese Kamikaze or early Christian martyr etc etc. (There was some what I think good stuff written on that kind of thing by Marxist trick cyclist community on the development of fascism in Germany in the 1930’s by the likes of Fromm et al.) The closest modern example of the more pragmatic political economic objectives of these ‘caliphate’ people, ironically, are the ‘Zionist’s’; they obviously want their piece of real estate and everyone else can put up with grief of get out as well. There is also the added absurdity now that they are calling these shits ‘cowards’ which is exactly what they are not. I also think, as regards the UK, it is mainly, as a cultural political base/heritage thing, a middle eastern and North African. You can get some radical Islamism in the south eastern Asian community of the UK but I really don’t think they are into this ISIS kind of thing. I can’t find them in Manchester and I have tried talking to loads of muslims; maybe they are all in London or something.
As i feared in my very first message on this thread there are serious knock-on effects for us all. I worried about the refugee crisis and we see indeed that they are now being increasingly demonised and rejected. The escalation in military actions is happening.Now, the Climate Change protest march which was going to be massive has been cancelled by the city authorities. The French government proposed a stationary rally of 5000 in a location well away from the COP21 venue to compensate.Will there now be unofficial protests which will result in police repression? For all the talk that ISIS will not accomplish its objective of closing down democracy, the restrictions on the environment movement shows that they have succeeded.
Here's the best statement from a Left Communist perspective I've come across. It could have appeared in the Socialist Standard (maybe it could/should?):
Quote:DOWN WITH THESE FLAGS!“Allons enfants de la patrie, le jour de gloire est arrivé…”(“Let’s go, children of the fatherland, the day of glory has arrived…” –the opening of the ‘Marseillaise, the French national anthem)The Marseillaise is popular again. The bloodthirsty song rises again from thousands of throats on French squares, before sport events and concerts, in the Sorbonne and in the parliament: “Amour sacré de la patrie, conduis, soutiens nos bras vengeurs!” (“Sacred love of the fatherland, lead, support our vengeful arms!”) On Facebook a campaign was started to exhort users all over the world to change their profile in the colors of the French national flag.Do not sing the Marseillaise.Do not change your FB profile into the colors of the French national flag.Do not fall in the trap of the war-mongering media.The terrorist attacks in Paris were horrific and repulsive. But nationalism is not the answer; it spreads the poison further. It may be true that most people who now sing the Marseillaise, or change their FB-profile into the French colors, only want to express their solidarity with the victims. But at a moment like this, it is important to know what the symbols, around which we are asked to close ranks, represent. Under the French tricolor, millions were sent to their death, in wars for worse than nothing. Under this banner, atrocities were committed (in Algeria and elsewhere) that were even worse than those of ISIS, while singing the Marseillaise: “Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons!” (“May their impure blood water our furrows!”)We don’t want to single out France: other national flags and anthems are equally blood-drenched. ISIS itself is not a religious movement; it simply uses religion as a flag and anthem to recruit cannon-fodder for its real goal: to control territory, to gain power, to amass capital. It seizes opportunities arising in the context of war and economic crisis in the Middle East to establish its own state. A state at war, and in war, as the history of France, the US, Germany and just about any other country illustrates: all is permitted.What did ISIS have to gain from the attacks in Paris? Continuous recruitment is essential for the so-called Islamic state, it needs it to wage war and to control its territory. The attacks favor its recruitment in two ways: first, as a demonstration of power, which increases its appeal for young people who feel angry and powerless. Secondly, the attacks fan the hatred of Muslims and thus the ill treatment of Muslims, pushing more of them into the tentacles of ISIS. Furthermore, ISIS needs to stop the exodus of refugees out of Syria. It cannot permit the emptying of the territory it controls or wants to conquer. Contrary to what’s often claimed, it does not get its main income from oil-exports or from Saudi subsidies but from the exploitation, in various ways, of the population in the areas it controls. So those who use the attacks to fan hatred for Islam and to keep the refugees out, do exactly what ISIS hoped they would do.The problem is not Islam. The global system is in crisis and this crisis creates situations in which waging war becomes very profitable. The warring parties feed on each other. The civilian casualties of drones and missiles feed the Islamist propaganda; the Islamist atrocities feed the belligerent, nationalist, anti-other ideologies in the West which prepare the way for more war.The first thing president Hollande did after the attacks was to send planes to bombard Raqqa, a large city that is said to be the capital of the IS. One wonders: had these planes “clean” military targets for what became the largest bombardment of Raqqa so far? If so, why weren’t they hit before? And if they were not, how many civilians were killed in Raqqa? Will the media tell us? Will there be a campaign on Facebook to put the flag of ISIS on our profile, in solidarity with the innocent victims that fell on its territory? Or will the mangled corpses only be seen on the Islamist social media?Revenge. Reprisal. Retaliation. The deeper the crisis becomes, the more we risk to see of it. The wars, the terrorist attacks, the massive unemployment and uncertainty, the ecological catastrophes, the swelling stream of refugees, all show that the systemic, global crisis of capitalism brings with it ever more social disruption, violence and destruction. The real problem is in society’s foundations and as long as they remain intact –as long as capitalism survives- the spiral will only widen.Changing the foundations , changing the purpose and means of human relations, ending capitalism, can only come as a result of massive collective struggle, which does not exist today. Nobody knows what the future will bring. But we do know it’s not written yet. What we do or don’t matters. It matters that we don’t passively accept the logic of capital. It matters that we refuse to sing the national anthem together with those who exploit and oppress us. It matters that we stand in solidarity with the victims of wars and terrorist attacks, whether they are French or Turk, Arab or Jew, black or white, without embracing any of the war-making parties. It matters that we raise our voices against the calls to close borders, erect walls, keep out refugees, and engage in more war. It matters that we say no! to more control, more police violence, more austerity in the name of national security. It matters that we refuse to help dig our own graves. It matters that we demonstrate that none of the problems facing society can be solved within capitalism. It matters that we speak, in the rivulets of revolt, of the power of the stream they could become.INTERNATIONALIST PERSPECTIVE__._,_.___
Quote:Here's the best statement from a Left Communist perspective I've come across. It could have appeared in the Socialist Standard (maybe it could/should?)I'll post it on the blog which might suffice
Had to laugh at the news item about football fans learning to sing La Marseillaise. Rugby players have been singing it for years but with different wordsYou could use these instead if you are at a place where you have to sing it. When they played (and play) the Welsh national anthem I used to sing "My hen laid a haddock on the top of a tree".That's the way to deal with national(ist) anthems.
I think that "moderate" Islam has to bear some of the responsibility for what has happened. A religion (any religion) that promotes life after death is not a good starting point. It encourages the perpetrators to be more reckless that would otherwise be the case, preparing to die for their "cause" and taking as many others as possible with them. And there is the promise of 21 virgins for the men. I don't know what the women are promised!I notice that these killers had been eating pizza in their hideaway. It would be interesting to know the contents of those pizzas. Did they include ham?
All religion is bull shit. Fraternal greetings to workers of all countries. Unite! No more war, no more killing.
The number is not 21 but 72 and in case you wondr how one man can cope “the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint.” – Al-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur'an,As for women "This number is only for men. A woman will have only one husband in Paradise, and she will be satisfied with him and will not need any more than that. The Muslim woman – who is not influenced by the claims of those who propagate permissiveness and knows that she is not like men in her make-up and nature, because Allaah has made her like that – does not object to the rulings of Allaah or feel angry. Rather she accepts what Allaah has decreed for her. Her sound nature tells her that she cannot live with more than one man at a time. So long as she has entered Paradise, she will have all that she desires, so she should not dispute now about the delights and rewards that her Lord has chosen for her, for your Lord does not treat anyone unjustly.", Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen, "The female martyr and the male martyr’s reward of seventy-two hoor al-‘iyn", Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 11419http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins
What a load of bollox but I don't suppose the ordinary, nominal Muslim believes that any more than the ordinary nominal Christian believes that at the end of time their bodies will be resurrected.Meanwhile an Islamic judge gets a taste of his own medicine:http://en.abna24.com/service/middle-east-west-asia/archive/2015/11/19/720528/story.htmlBut then as he died a martyr he might like it.
ALB: "What a load of bollox but I don't suppose the ordinary, nominal Muslim believes that any more than the ordinary nominal Christian believes that at the end of time their bodies will be resurrected."You could also argue that the "ordinary nominal 'socialist'" doesn't support the idea of common ownership. If you have a religion that you wear, if not on your sleeve but on other parts of your body, then you should be prepared to stand by it. Otherwise it makes you a fairweather religioso.
rodmanlewis wrote:If you have a religion that you wear, if not on your sleeve but on other parts of your body, then you should be prepared to stand by it. Otherwise it makes you a fairweather religioso.Well, 17 percent of Anglican clergy do not believe in a personal god so go figure…
With the UN Security Council resolution permitting "all measures necessary", Cameron has the UN approval for intervention and Corbyn has one of the pre-conditions he demanded for supporting such action met.Increased UK involvement i think is now inevitable.
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