Money-free world
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Mr B: I am right in saying you are not (and have never) been a member of the AF? By the way, in reply I would say that the abolition of money (by itself) is similarly not freedom. But I am a pedantic wee gite.
Kaz, I think you've got the wrong Mike Ballard. This one sounds more like he's been in the SLP (De Leonist).
Kaz, perhaps this Mike Ballard is not the Mike Ballard that you might be supposing him to be but possibly the antipodean Mike Ballard who often visits our blog.
I don't know the other Mike Ballard, although I've been mistaken for him on occasion. And yes, I did cut my socialist teeth with SLP of America's comrades, reading "Value, Prive and Profit". Helped me immensely to get into CAPITAL and grasp the notions of production for use and need. Living in harmony with the Earth came later. Later Comrades….from Perth, Ausralia.
Mike Ballard wrote:I don't know the other Mike Ballard, although I've been mistaken for him on occasion. And yes, I did cut my socialist teeth with SLP of America's comrades, reading "Value, Prive and Profit". Helped me immensely to get into CAPITAL and grasp the notions of production for use and need. Living in harmony with the Earth came later. Later Comrades….from Perth, Ausralia.Hi Mike If you are from Australia then I believe we are friends on Facebook?If so, welcome to the forum.Just a minute! You are Santa!
G'day Mike and welcome to the forum. The reason why I mentioned De Leonism was this passage which suggests that socialism wouldn't be entirely "money-free" as there would still be a "medium of exchange", presumably labour-time vouchers or so-called "labour money":
Mike Ballard wrote:Socialism is a different mode of producing and distributing wealth. As use-values are no longer saddled with their exchange-value in order to be sold in the market for a price which fluctuates with supply and demand around exchange-value and instead, use-values are distributed on the basis of labour time put into creating the social store of goods and services, the medium of exchange is not longer a commodity–it is not traded on the market, it has no price, it no longer embodies the alienated wealth of the producers as the producers sociall own and democratically manage the collective product of their labour.I don't this system is either necessary or workable or even desirable (as it would still tie consumption to work done — and it would still involved "pricing" goods and services).
There was a long discussion over labour-time vouchers or free access which has been summarised here which may be of interest.http://www.deleonism.org/v2.htm
G'day ALB, I can't find you're comment by clicking on the link provided. That link always takes me back to the first page of this commentary. So, I'll just paste in what you wrote:*****G'day Mike and welcome to the forum. The reason why I mentioned De Leonismwas this passage which suggests that socialism wouldn't be entirely"money-free" as there would still be a "medium of exchange", presumablylabour-time vouchers or so-called "labour money": /Mike Ballard/wrote:Socialism is a different mode of producing and distributing wealth. Asuse-values are no longer saddled with their exchange-value in order to besold in the market for a price which fluctuates with supply and demand aroundexchange-value and instead,* use-values are distributed on the basis oflabour time put into creating the social store of goods and services, themedium of exchange is not longer a commodity*–it is not traded on themarket, it has no price, it no longer embodies the alienated wealth of theproducers as the producers sociall own and democratically manage thecollective product of their labour.I don't this system is either necessary orworkable or even desirable (as it would still tie consumption to work done).************Right. De Leon, as well as Marx, did propose a system of labour time vouchers as a way of distributing the use-values within the socialist mode of production:http://www.slp.org/pdf/de_leon/ddlother/fif_ques.pdfI think it's perfectly appropriate to have a plan ready for implementing a new mode of production, one beyond the wage system. SNLT vouchers make the relation between humans producing useful good and services to fulfill their needs transparent. The wage system and commodity sale, do not. How many hours of labour are in that ale or automobile or library service?As the SPGB currently suggests, workers would have a mindset ready to distribute the collective product of labour on the baiss of need : producers would just put in the labour time necessary to fill the social store of goods and services with no fear that some would do nothing to contribute their time and effort. If that happened, I would have no objection. The point of changing the mode of production is to free ourselves from the bondage and mystifications inherent in commodity production and sale via the wage system. Socialists began to lose that vision about the time Engels died and Bernstein became a leading light in the socialist movement. Lenin, only made matters worse.
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