Moderators decision on Cde. Maratty’s indefinite forum ban

[lindanesocialist]

If , with the 'new light' moderation noone can be suspended then why is Vin Maratty still suspended??

[Anonymous]

lindanesocialist wrote:

Make no mistake about it Mcolcome1 as a moderator yourself you know that the 3 mods haveVin banned but they refuse to accept that and blame it on the EC which makes them cowardly and bullshitters 

Linda:I have been moderator of more than 15 discussion forums including one that I opened myself for the World Socialist Movement in Latin America, and most of the participants were members of Leninist communist parties, Stalinists, Trotskyite, Anarchists, religious peoples,  independents,  and others left wings organizations, and in those forums I was always publishing articles written by the WSM/SPGB,  but we never had so many conflicts and controversies  like in this forum, and we never had so many rules, and so many bureaucratic steps,  and some of those forum they had between 3 and 4 thousands members, and the daily posting was very high.  Something wrong must be taking place around here, and I have not pay too much attention PS:This forum has 14 large rules  that I never read, and I was ignorant about those rules,  until last night when I was told that I had violated two rules of this forum, and they were right about it. I have been thrown out from many Leninists ( and Castroists )  forums because they are intolerant when it comes about raising criticism against Saint Vladimir Lenin, and the Soviet Union 

[lindanesocialist]

[lindanesocialist]

 I and Vin  have been socialists and  members of the SPGB since  79Why do they want to get rid of us?This thread is bullshit, created by a member with an axe to grind. Such things do not belong in a revolutionary organisationWe need unity . 

[Anonymous]

lindanesocialist wrote:

 I and Vin  have been a socialist and  a member  of the SPGB since  79Why do they want to get rid of us?

I don't think they want to get rid of you, probably, you are a couple of rebels, If we had a couple of millions of women like you around the world, probably the working class will raise up against the bourgeois. The rulers have brainwashed more men than women

[lindanesocialist]

[Anonymous]

I have taken the time to read some of the post on this thread. Frankly, I would like to tell you, that banning a member of a party from an organ of communication for  an indefinite time, it is something that I never saw on a Leninist organization.Vin in the past posted several messages on the WSM forum and he never had any problems, there was only one occasion that he was asked to avoid posting internal issues of the socialist parties.Something is wrong, and I think there  are problems of personal conflicts. Situations like this might discourage many peoples to join the SP, but I do not think that all the companion parties have similar situation

[moderator2]

Quote:

This thread is bullshit, created by a member with an axe to grind.

To dispose of this piece of mis-information and mis-direction simply and easily click first message to read the opening post. We are so "cowardly" that we put our decisions on to the forum on this topic thread for discussion. We have not shied away from taking responsibility for our moderation. As i said we will defend our moderation decisions if we conclude they were the right ones and will retract and apologise, which we have done on a number of occasions, when we agreed with the criticisms. For Mcolme's information, Cde. Vin Maratty is also banned from posting on our party's Yahoo business and internal discussion lists by a different moderator. WSM moderation is conducted by i think a member of the SPC (could be the WSPUS) and so you could offer your services as i believe he is inactive rather than passive (plus it is a discussion list with negligible traffic to monitor.) 

[Anonymous]

moderator2 wrote:

Quote:

This thread is bullshit, created by a member with an axe to grind.

To dispose of this piece of mis-information and mis-direction simply and easily click first message to read the opening post. We are so "cowardly" that we put our decisions on to the forum on this topic thread for discussion. We have not shied away from taking responsibility for our moderation. As i said we will defend our moderation decisions if we conclude they were the right ones and will retract and apologise, which we have done on a number of occasions, when we agreed with the criticisms. For Mcolme's information, Cde. Vin Maratty is also banned from posting on our party's Yahoo business and internal discussion lists by a different moderator. WSM moderation is conducted by i think a member of the SPC (could be the WSPUS) and so you could offer your services as i believe he is inactive rather than passive (plus it is a discussion list with negligible traffic to monitor.) 

I am a member of the Socialist Party of Canada. and I am the moderator of that forum. I have not banned Vin from the WSM forum, except that another moderator has done it,  and I was not aware of that situation. Personally, I will not ban him from the WSM forum. I do not have full access to all the features of that forum, in others forums the moderators have access to everything. What is inactive and defunct  at the present time is the forum itself, and nobody is posting anything

[Anonymous]

You can use Yahoo discussion forum format. It is easier to follow the discussion.If Vin can not post or speak in any situation, he is just practically a suspended member of the Socialist Party.I have seen many peoples been frustrated or burnt out due to this type of situation, and sometimes those individuals they become anti-socialist, or anti-communist.

[Anonymous]

I think we have too many chiefs and not enough Indians

[Bijou Drains]

moderator2 wrote:

Tim, the protocols on etiquette between members was laid down by conference which as you are well aware of, supersedes the guide-lines, the rules and the moderators authority…and you can check which conference resolutions which mandates a certain amount of civility and respect between members by going to Spintcom files and searching out the year yourself. Once more, why do you not read what Mod2 actually responded when the same point was raised earlier. I was replying to Cde. Mcolme query about what he considered was a more lenient treatment of LBird and the reply was not accusing Cde Maratty of the same breach but an explanation to clarify for Cde. Mcolme that because of their different status, LBird can be more accusatory in his posts..again within reason.   Yes, we do hold members to a higher standard than non-members…Tough being an SPGBer, isn't it?Let it be clear what this moderator is saying and has said.I intend where possible to moderate with a lighter touch that what might have been the previous case. I'm not pointing the finger but simply saying my attitude and approach is my own. This means that i may well hold a different position from fellow moderators. I am one of three. I can be out-voted. I am also a democrat and accept decisions that go against my own view. Or would you like it if three individual moderators kept making individual idiosyncratic but conflicting decisions and kept reversing actions back and forth?If Mod1 infringed the rules as you claim by saying you were anti-democratic (again, i am not going to track back into history for the message) then banning would not have been the immediate response but a warning would have been issued. Has he repeated the claim? If not, then, we can assume he has understood he had gone further than he should have. I'm not going to return to the relevant messages for the context but let us be clear, many members in the history of the Party have accused others of not acting democratically and, in itself, does not warrant to be considered as questioning the member's socialist credentials and qualifications to be a member of the Party. Moderators have often been accused ourselves of behaving anti-democratically and, again depending upon what context, it can be considered as fair and acceptable comment. At other times, it can be seen as an unjustifiable slur that will evoke an official response. It appears to me, Tim, that you are  personally very concerned from the number of times you have posted about the moderation process and its implementation by ourselves. Cde. Maratty will vouch that i frequently in the now distant past when difficulties were arising and evolving suggested he puts himself forward as a moderator and shoulder some of the responsibility of maintaining some order on the forum. I now suggest the very same to you. If you feel you can bring your own expertise and knowledge to the task then come aboard.But if you believe that constantly highlighting what you perceive as the failings of fellow members and comrades, all volunteers for what i think many would see as an unenviable party position, is constructive contributions to the Party organisation, so be it. We, the moderators, will continue to defend ourselves and our actions when we think we are in the right and beg forgiveness if we tresspass and transgress.    

with reference to the conference motion which I think you are alluding to, my recollection of this motion (passed some time in the mid 80s if I remember correctly) stated that a speaker AT CONFERENCE OR ADM who questioned the socialist integrity of another speaker AT THAT CONFERENCE OR ADM, would be ruled out of order.That resolution clearly applied to speakers at conference or ADM, not this forum, I really feel you are grasping at straws now to further justify the indefinite banning of Cde Marratty.Even if I was to accept (which I don't) that the spirit of that resolution should be applied to this forum, there is a world of difference between ruling a part of a contribution out of order, or even ruling a speaker out of order, and imposing an indefinite ban. Would it be acceptable to impose an indefinite ban on a member from speaking at conference or at a branch meeting because they had made a comment that was out of order? If such an action has ever been taken, I would be very grateful if you could give me details. Also if you are going to make questionable use of this motion at conference to justify the ban, at least have the good grace to fit your actions in with the actions recommended in the motion.You then go on to say that based on this flawed reasoning, that as L Bird is a non member he can "be more accusatory in his posts". I ask again, where in the forum rules, the party rules or in the terms of reference for moderators is this stated, and please do not quote conference resolutions which clearly do not apply to this situation.You then go on to state that you will moderate with a lighter touch, and that you may not take the same view as other moderators, yet I have asked in PMs for information about which way the Mods voted on the continuation of the ban on Cde Marratty, I was told that it was not relevant which way individual Mods voted. I would argue in a democratic party, where all officials of the party are accountable, that knowledge of the voting pattern of the individual members is essential in order to maintain democratic accountability. Would you not agree?Just to clarify I am politically concerned, rather than personally concerned, with regards to this issue. If it was L Bird who was being banned, I hope (despite our various bouts of handbags at dawn) that I would be raising the same issues.With regards to your comment on Mod 1 calling me anti democratic. Just to be clear, I have no wish for Mod 1 to be banned, he explained that he took my comment out of context and withdrew it, I'm more than happy with that and I have absolutely no animosity toward Brian, in fact I am greatly looking forward to seeing him again at ADM and maybe sinking a few jars with him. Vin described a member as a little Hitler, which was a very unpleasant thing to say, Vin apologised and withdrew the comment, same as Brian. Surely that should be the end of the matter.My own view of moderation is that we should moderate the comment, not the commentator. Remove comments if they are inappropriate or break the rules by all means, but do not stop the poster posting other comments, which don't break the rules. It seems to me that we are refusing to give Cde Marratty the chance to say something constructive and appropriate, because he has said things that are inappropriate. Or to put it another way, we are banning him from saying something sensible because he said something stupid!

[LBird]

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

Just to clarify I am politically concerned, rather than personally concerned, with regards to this issue. If it was L Bird who was being banned, I hope (despite our various bouts of handbags at dawn) that I would be raising the same issues.

Comradely comment noted, Tim.My view, too.And I'd let Vin continue to hang himself in open debate…

[lindanesocialist]

mcolome1 wrote:

I have been moderator of more than 15 discussion forums including one that I opened myself for the World Socialist Movement in Latin America, and most of the participants were members of Leninist communist parties, Stalinists, Trotskyite, Anarchists, religious peoples,  independents,  and others left wings organizations, and in those forums I was always publishing articles written by the WSM/SPGB,  but we never had so many conflicts and controversies  like in this forum, and we never had so many rules, and so many bureaucratic steps,  and some of those forum they had between 3 and 4 thousands members, and the daily posting was very high.  Something wrong must be taking place around here, and I have not pay too much attentionI have taken the time to read some of the post on this thread. Frankly, I would like to tell you, that banning a member of a party from an organ of communication for  an indefinite time, it is something that I never saw on a Leninist organization.

 Thankyou for your comradely support. With all the experience you have had with other groups, I would value your opinion on these EC Minutes https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/world-socialist-movement/spgb-ec-mins-oct-2016

[moderator2]

Quote:

Even if I was to accept (which I don't) that the spirit of that resolution should be applied to this forum

Well, i do. Please officially lodge your protest and your request for my removal as a maverick moderator.  Miss out the IC – complain directly to the EC  I for one have gone out of my way to exercise tolerance and be lenient of Cde. Maratty's  forum behaviour since which now stretches back years.Sadly, Cde. MColme's knowledge of the situation as he admitted is limited to reading posts on one thread. He is unaware of the very long history that is involved, going back literally years. Sadly, action was taken against Lindanesocialist only today  (or was it her, for it takes no Sherlock Holmes to deduce who is really at the keyboard when her posts appear? Another clear sign of our willingness to compromise that goes unacknowledged)  after two requests to follow common sense behaviour on where to post messages was simply ignored and defied.We are not dealing with isolated occasional infringements but a well-trod path of repeated misdemeanours which culminated in an indefinite suspension.Each new day and each new post from Cde. Maratty is re-confirming the correctness of the moderators' caution in not restoring his posting rights. You want to know how the vote went?I was in favour of lifting the ban regardless of the sensibilities among other members being upset by that decision. I was out-voted. Today, that moderator vote would be unanimous.As i said to Cde. Maratty in a PM he has never extolled confidence in me that he would change his spots. And that has exactly been the situation.  He had an opportunity that if he accepted our decision in a comradely manner as it was issued that outcome  would have probably been reversed. But that was not to be, and it was not through moderators actions but Cde. Vin's own reluctance to appeal to the EC and yes…to be genuinely show regret and remorseful for previous actions, admitting a role in causing the dispute. But for yourself, you'd rather indulge in some theocratic semantics about one word i used. I do not kindly take to being called a cowardly bullshitter and having the integrity and sincerity of my moderating doubted. You may well consider such invective as acceptable from a fellow member but to return to my opening remark – i don't consider it comradely in the slightest and don't expect such accusations to be made against me or any other member of the Party..i can only talk for myself, but my patience is being tested and i am coming to the end of my tether and quite frankly if you want my job as moderator, you are very welcome to volunteer for it….but i very much doubt you will…As a parting piece of information i recommended Cde. Maratty to be given the admin of an inactive media blogspot so he could continue his interest and involvement  with videos.More fool me, eh?   

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