militarisation of the police
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Ozymandias wrote:Ok I shouldn't have used the word "Faith". Still I have no hope or confidence in the "Working Class"…their brains are dormant. They are fuckin idiots.
Even if we accept your characterisation of workers as 'fuckin idiots' (and a glance around ourselves almost every day shows why you hold that opinion), we have to ask 'why are they like that?'.Is it 'human nature' (ie. that as babies, these people had no other potential or option than what they are 'now'), or are they 'made' into what we 'see'?Surely we follow Marx, and try to use theories to uncover a reality that is often unobservable?If we do this, and use a theory of class, we start to see a small group of humans deliberately shaping the majority into forms which suit the minority.That is, this society makes 'fuckin idiots' of the majority, and we have both an explanation 'why' and a 'how to change it'.Societies are produced, not fixed.Your pessimism is understandable, Oz, even justifiable, but it's not the only way of looking at the present situation.
Too many dormant brains, that's for sure. 'They' – fuckin idiots – sure, some of them, some of us? I'm trying not to be pedantic but I'm always uncomfortable with sweeping generalisations, and 'they' , meaning working class, is an awful lot of people so I can't go along with it."If we do this, and use a theory of class, we start to see a small group of humans deliberately shaping the majority into forms which suit the minority. That is, this society makes 'fuckin idiots' of the majority, and we have both an explanation 'why' and a 'how to change it'." – from L Bird, above – I definitely do go along with and there are many examples of people, members and non-members, trying to do this in different ways.Ozy, life is tough and some lives much tougher than others and our object seems to be a tough call but what would you suggest we do if it's not to pursue our goal, however impossible it may seem to some? Seriously, would you rather give up totally, forgo the challenge, and encourage others to do the same? Is that even in your nature? I wonder.
Hello punk mate. Yes we do keep getting drawn back because the party is the antidote to all the madness out there and as mcolome1 says there is nothing better. I guess I shouldn't be coming on here spouting my hatred like this but in a way I wish I was one of the "idiots" out there. I am in a fairly unique position because I was brought up with SPGB ideas right from infancy and straight through childhood because both my Da and my old dear were members. My old man still is. I was reading the Standard by the age of about 11 or 12 and I remember all of the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle suddenly coming together in one momentary flash around about that age. A blessing or a curse? Sometimes I just wish I didn't know what I know. It's hellish to have the old X-Ray specs on all the time because as Socialists we see through everything. I guess I can't really call myself a Socialist though after what I've been saying. However I tell you it's not a patch on what I was hearing from party members all through my childhood and adolescence. From what I could tell the dirty secret of various different SPGB members was an extreme loathing of the working class. I'm trying to exonerate myself here but I'm onto plums I guess. I just harbour a great fear that we are all headed for something catastrophic in the near future…and I'm talking extinction event here. I think there have been various signs of hope in the past 10 years (Occupy/Bradley Manning/TZM/Wikileaks/Snowden/Arab Spring etc) but the pace of change is glacial even in the Internet age. I just have this terrible fear all the time. I'm scared wer are not going to make it. Please forgive me everyone. I don't mean to offend. I'm angry and mega frustrated.
Ozymandias wrote:Please forgive me everyone. I don't mean to offend. I'm angry and mega frustrated.No need for forgiveness, Oz. I'm sure we all, in our frustration, resort to slagging off our class, from time to time.You're just brave enough to vent your frustration, here, unlike the rest of us cowards!But, once the emotion has passed, and you resume your rational thinking about 'why' most workers often seem 'beyond the pale', then it can only give hope that things might change. Not 'will' or 'must', but 'might'. It's a job for both us and them. We can't bring socialism alone.Right! Resume your ranting against 'the scum', Oz!But… identify 'the scum' correctly…
Ozy mate, you are a socialist. If you didn't have doubts, fears and frustrations that bubble up to the surface in the form of anger and disgust with fellow humans, you wouldn't be human.My contact with socialism was from a young age as well. and I often ask myself, if I had a choice now, would I take the red pill or the blue pill. My answer to myself is about fifty fifty either way, sometimes I would gladly take mindless contentment and other times I'm glad I can see through the lies and bullshit. When in one mood or the other it's hard to see the flip side.At the end of the day, if humanity goes up in a radioactive ball of flame or under an ice sheet, "So What!", we're all walking worm food anyway. The way I see things, we are either part of the problem or part of the solution?As a socialist, you are part of the solution.
Oz, I sense your frustration, a frustration which, if each and every Socialist was to be honest, we all feel. As Socialist Punk will bear out, I oft times state I wish I could get the collective working class by the throat and either give them a good shake, or bang their heads off of a wall. There are, however, some things on this thread, I also agree with. One is, if I can come to an understanding and agreement with the case for Socialism, then anyone can. Another is, if not fighting the corner for Socialism, then what? I'm not the kind of worker who gives in and I suspect you, as with the vast majority on this site, are the same! When I first joined the Party in 1981, I was infused with enough fervour, to think that we could make a significant dent in the political argument, as to make our voice, more than just a "whisper in the wind". 33 years later, probably most people would think inanely, I am still of this view. It is obvious now to me, that we will not see Socialism in my lifetime. As with SP, ill health makes this more of a possibility. But what am I to do? Leave the field of "battle" and battle it is, to the proponents of this abominable, objectionable, inhumane society called Capitalism? Not a fucking chance. I will advocate sanity, reason, humanity, till the day I draw my last breath. I'm a Socialist. I'm a rational human being. I think, I empathise, I understand. I want rid of this fucking cesspool, that some intellectually redundant cretins call "Civilised". I'm as much focussed on the aim of Socialism as I have ever been. The alternative? not an option.Fuck Capitalism. Because it has been fucking me and my class for hundreds of years. It's time to turn the tables!!!
You know what the really insane thing is? If we manage to "turn the tables", no one will miss out but we will "all" benefit, as a collective human race. Now how cool would that be?
Oz, if I have contributed in some way to, re-infusing you with a sense of fight and fuck this system, how really "cool" would that be!!! Reinvigorating the fight in a "Comrade", is as important, nay, more so, than getting a "fresh" face to the battle!Battle rejoined mate and may it grow in intensity. Be well friend
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