Marxist Animalism
- This topic has 973 replies, 32 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
The Story of Cats on ITV (8pm, Sundays) showed us again that evolution is about adaptation, not progress. Cats such as the Cloudy Leopard of South East Asia and other earlier feline species too can swivel their paws in order to descend as well as climb. Those who we call domestic cats cannot.Exploitation is very much what capitalism does to both humans (proletarians) and fellow animals. Or is being enslaved, killed, incarcerated, tortured, experimented upon and decimated not exploitation?And… are you not an animal, then?
John Oswald wrote:The Story of Cats on ITV (8pm, Sundays) showed us again that evolution is about adaptation, not progress. Cats such as the Cloudy Leopard of South East Asia and other earlier feline species too can swivel their paws in order to descend as well as climb. Those who we call domestic cats cannot.Exploitation is very much what capitalism does to both humans (proletarians) and fellow animals. Or is being enslaved, killed, incarcerated, tortured, experimented upon and decimated not exploitation?And… are you not an animal, then?It would be like Lenin saying on his book on Imperialism, that the workers from the colonies were under higher exploitation because they had lower salaries, and the capitalists were able to enslave them, the economical reality was that the workers of the metropolis were under higher level of exploitation because they produced higher rate of surplus value, and like the concept of the feminists that women suffer double, or triple exploitation, our exploitation takes place at the point of production
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/07/why-chimpanzee-testing-in-medicine-must-end/
Quote:A French man died last month and five others in the same clinical trial were hospitalized after they took an experimental drug. The drug had been deemed safe for humans after having been tested on chimpanzees in preclinical trials…. there is no necessity or compelling scientific justification for the use of chimpanzees to study human diseases and treatments and that turning from animal experiments to modern methods would represent genuine progress…alanjjohnstone wrote:http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/07/why-chimpanzee-testing-in-medicine-must-end/ Quote:A French man died last month and five others in the same clinical trial were hospitalized after they took an experimental drug. The drug had been deemed safe for humans after having been tested on chimpanzees in preclinical trials…. there is no necessity or compelling scientific justification for the use of chimpanzees to study human diseases and treatments and that turning from animal experiments to modern methods would represent genuine progress…The first heart surgical procedures and surgeries were successfull done because Vivien Thomas ( a self trained medical doctor ) used many dogs in the laboratory of a hospital. His procedures saved the life of many children and adults who had heart diseases. In that time it was prohibited to touch the heart of a human being due to the stupidities of religion, but they allowed many blue babies to die due to the lack of oxygenation in their hearts, and their bodiesDr Vivien Thomas was a black men who worked in a medical laboratory, and he was discriminated because he was black, he was a teacher of many doctors graduated from Harvard and Yale, but they were paying him the salary of a janitor., by the meantime he was doing extensive medical research and living in poverty in a GhettoThe hospital became rich with his discovery, others doctors became famous, and he did not receive any recognition, he designed all the medical instruments, and after 40 years they gave him a doctorate degree in law, when he was a surgeon, he was not a lawyer, he was scientists.There were many peoples complaining about the killings of dogs, but they did not complain about the killing of thousands of children, and the discrimination against black peoples. Those are the romantic irony of this stupid society called capitalism, there are peoples who complain about the bad treatment against animals, but they never complain about the killing of human beings, there are dogs and cats that are living in better conditions that millions of human being
Whether you or i are fully qualified to determine the efficiency of those experiments with dogs, this book disputes it. The book claims it was impossible to accurately mimic human heart defects in a dog’s heart and researchers devised the successful operation without the use of animals. Vivisection actually delayed medical progress. Because of the difference between human anatomy and physiology and animal anatomy and physiology, the results of animal tests are unhelpful – and at time misleading – for human medical progress.https://books.google.co.th/books?id=XAxYur9IzCsC&pg=PA167&lpg=PA167&dq=Vivien+Thomas+vivisection&source=bl&ots=0-QHPa7iIq&sig=BVJohunX-Ng8fkKTpqe7AgzhDwU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiu587nk7DLAhULTo4KHeijBFAQ6AEIQDAF#v=onepage&q=Vivien%20Thomas%20vivisection&f=false
I never made any such comparison between human proles and fellow animals. However, you are then more exploited, are you, than the billions of nonhuman beings caught in world capitalism`s animal-killing holocaust, are you?
http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/online/research/index.html A useful bibliography to have.Sick of socialists taking the side of capitalism`s vivisection industry and repeating the claims of its mouthpieces – and all because socialists hate animal activism more than they hate capitalism! This attitude does not enhance their socialism one iota. What it does do is show these socialists fossilized in a mid-20th century human chauvinism, blinding them to a wealth of evidence and of advances made in ethology.
[[/quote] There were many peoples complaining about the killings of dogs, but they did not complain about the killing of thousands of children, and the discrimination against black peoples. Those are the romantic irony of this stupid society called capitalism, there are peoples who complain about the bad treatment against animals, but they never complain about the killing of human beings, there are dogs and cats that are living in better conditions that millions of human being[/quote]And you are just the same , Malcolm – discriminating between the exploited, when exploitation is all-encompassing. You see humans and other species as in an "us vs. them" scenario. "Your kid or the dog?" Pathetic limiting and compartmentalisation. Universality is what is required. You are an animal and the roots of your exploitation and of human exploitation are one with nonhuman exploitation.
John Oswald wrote:I never made any such comparison between human proles and fellow animals. However, you are then more exploited, are you, than the billions of nonhuman beings caught in world capitalism`s animal-killing holocaust, are you?We are talking about two different terms. It would be like the concept of Capital, for an accountant, or financier, it means investment, or asset, for me it is unpaid labor. Your concept of exploitation is about killing, for me, it is extraction of surplus value
This article may interest some folk and thehorrific film it links to http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/09/violence-on-the-factory-farm-how-not-to-feed-the-world/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLNijMgVK1U
Quote:In 1965, 10 billion livestock animals were slaughtered each year. That number is now over 55 billion…It is commonly claimed that we need to massively increase the amount of food we produce to feed a growing world population. Another claim is that chemical-intensive (GM) agriculture and factory farming is the only way to do this. These claims are erroneous. The world already produces enough food to feed the anticipated increase in global population, and various official high-level reports state that small-scale/family farms using ecologically friendly methods are better placed to feed a growing population if adequately invested in…if as a species we were to cut down on meat consumption or even eradicate it from our diet, we could feed the world more easily…One last point should be made about the one billion cattle currently alive and the manure produced. In traditional, sustainable systems of agriculture, manure is part of a holistic cycle: it’s fertiliser. But in modern factory farms, this waste is not cycled through the farm because there’s just too much of it. Instead, waste is stored in manure ‘lagoons’, which emit methane and, even worse for the environment and climate, nitrous oxide.Another thoughtful article that is worth a readhttp://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/09/on-their-own-terms-animal-liberation-for-the-21st-century/
Quote:A liberatory theory ought to call for the neutering of cats or to prevent dogs from mating, given that we’ve already manipulated the reproductive processes of these animals by selective breeding, so they lack the ability to reproduce and raise their young on their terms.And you are just the same , Malcolm – discriminating between the exploited, when exploitation is all-encompassing. You see humans and other species as in an "us vs. them" scenario. "Your kid or the dog?" Pathetic limiting and compartmentalisation. Universality is what is required. You are an animal and the roots of your exploitation and of human exploitation are one with nonhuman exploitation. [/quote]
Mcolome1 wrote: My purpose in this forum is in order to present my ideas, and to discuss about socialism, I am not here to establish a fight, I do not have any boxing gloves.I am a vegetarian, but I will not force anybody to become a vegetarian in this society, or in a socialist society, that is a personal decision, it would be like religion.Natives Americans ( who were the founders, and discovers of the Americas ) love the earth, the forests, and animals, but they ate buffalo meat, and they used their skins for protection against the weather, and to build their tepeeI think you do not understand the concept of economical exploitation. Based on your definition and understanding we can also say that trees, and forests are being exploited, and they should fight for their own freedom. We are talking about a different kind of exploitationMy understanding of economical exploitation is different, it is based on a relationship between human beings, and it takes place at the point of production. Animals in a farm are commodities used to produce profits, and the peoples employed by the big farms owners are exploited, they are wage slaves. Human being is the only social being that exist over the earth, we as human want to apply human characters to animalsHuman beings are not animals, we are human beings, we came from the animal world thousands of years ago, but we separated ourselves from that world thousands of years ago too, it sounds like Neo-Darwinsim.Animal research was NOT responsible for the development of coronary bypass surgery. In 1961 in France, Kunlin first used a portion of a person's own vein to replace obstructed arterial segments. This gave birth to arterial bypass surgery for different parts of the body, the heart included. By contrast, Beck of Ohio and Vineburg of Canada took their theories to the animal laboratory in search of surgical answer to the complications of coronary artery disease. Each devised more than one procedure, envisioning success from their findings in animals. Not long after, their recommended operations were performed on thousands of human patients. What were the results? To say the least, unworthy. To put it bluntly; a fiasco, a total failure. I am witness to this event and the least I can do is speak out. Animal experimentation inevitably leads to human experimentation. That is the final verdict, sad as it is. And the toll mounts on both sides.""Dogs have been extensively used in heart research, but their coronary arteries differ from those of humans – they have smaller connections with one another and the left coronary artery dominates, while in humans the right does so. In addition, the conduction system has a different pattern of blood supply, and consequently, researchers have had difficulty in producing ischemic heart blocks in dogs, which occurs frequently in humans. The blood coagulation mechanism is unlike ours, therefore using dogs to test prosthetic devices and valves is unreliable. A dog's reaction to shock is also very different to that of humans. After massive blood loss a dog's intestines are congested, while in humans we see pallor and ischemia. No wonder conclusions from dog experiments extrapolated to human beings frequently brings about catastrophic results and regrettable failures, which occurred with the earlier models of heart valves and in the first several years of using the heart-lung machine. For the benefit of medical science vivisection should be stopped. We must put an end to the medical fraud of vivisection."
Dr Fadali's evidence is borne out by medical historian Dr M. Beddow Bayly in Clinical Medical Discoveries who writes:"As for bypass surgery, animal research actually retarded this therapy for humans. Because a dog's clotting characteristics and coronary valves are so different from ours, the initial human patients died. The first success was Dr Kunlin's work in France. Dr Kunlin's work was clinical and had nothing to do with animal research."
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.