Made my way to Socialism after years of going down the wrong path. I need your help.

[Fuzzy83]

New member looking for guidance into finding what kind of Socialism would suit me best.

 

 

Well I never thought I would find myself on SPGB forum. 14 years ago I would of thought I have caught some kind of disease but the truth is ever since I became unplugged from the matrix I

have made more steps to alternative ways of doing things.

 

 

From an early age I had dreams of building a better society for all. One dream was to build industrial complex where workers and myself could produce different products and the proceeds would go to providing good living standards for ourselves and our families.

 

 

Little did I know at the time that the example I just shared was a example of a commune. People working together with Socialist values.

 

 

But I wasn't always unplugged from the matrix. From leaving secondary school I got involved with the wrong people.

 

 

As far as I can remember the first poltical party I got involved with was the BNP. I thought there nationalist policies where what I needed to make my dream come true. After all they all where united and spoke about wanting to form their own self sustaining villages. But after 2 months of membership I started to see their true colors. The bad thing is though instead of jumping ship I let them consume me.

 

 

I won't lie when I say I became a racist because when your around people with prejudice you tend to pick up nasty habbits. I became exactly like them and in the process I lost a lot of true friends of different cultures, races and nationalities. I became submerged in this mindset of hate & intolerance.

 

 

Then after 1 year I was lucky enough to be forced to leave the BNP. What happened was that the Young BNP leader by the name of Daniel Lake, a friend of the infamous Mark Collett accused me of being a spy for the BBC. At the time I just wanted to record video of Red White and Blue festival to show my family. There was threats of a person called Sadie Graham leading a team of South African Boers to my home to force me into revealing my true identity. For the most part I moved from the address which I was living at out of fear. I then left the BNP and canceled my membership. This was 2 years before the membership list was leaked. There was one thorn left in me and that was that the BNP do not delete people off their membership list so when the list and 2nd list was leaked I have had my name ffoating on it despite the fact that I left the party.

 

 

So you can say that I got a good taste of the repulsive thing called White Nationalism at a early age. Looking back on that experience is always painful. At most it makes me feel guility and ashamed of myself but it also reminds me how to show Nationalists the errors of their ways.
 

 

One thing I failed to mention is that I am a disabled person. I am a self-aware Sociopath. At the time though I wasn't self-aware. I knew I had a personality disorder but I wasn't aware that I couldn't feel. Looking back on the BNP they took complete advantage of me and lured me down every wrong direction you could name. But anyway I don't want to talk those people anymore who are filthy excuses for human beings.

 

 

From about 2006 to 2010 I was at best a Conservative supporter. Not a member. I got involved in all the Labour bashing and Left-wing critism that you can think of. I also found myself at odds with Unite Against Fasicism, Socialist Workers Party and Trade Unions.

 

 

This time in my life was the start of a real repetitive process where I didn't actually learn anything and the only thing people where interested in doing is trolling each other on facebook.
 

 

This was before the EDL came into existance but instead I swore allegiance to people who I thought where like me but actually where children of some of the biggest rich toff vermin in the UK.
 

 

Instead this period of my life was rather a reflection between the characters of the Conservative party and real people of different classes, race, culture, religon and status. During a brief 1 day college course I met a brilliant maths teacher who was origonally from Jamaica.We got on really well. I also became good friends with a local chip shop owner who was a 2nd generation immigrant & was a silkh from the Pubjab region of India. These people where just as British as anyone I'd ever known. Well Sid the chip shop owner could be called a proud patriot of England because he would never shut up about football and he also loved the show shameless. 

 

 

I eventually stopped supporting the  Conservative party just before the election because I could not support people who had such a loathing view of average everyday British people whom I loved so much. And when I say British I mean people who love the country and the people who they live with. Britishness is not some thing your born into. It is a description of which collective of people you want to be with.

 

 

The next 4 years have really shocked me. They've really opened my eyes and as I have tried to cling to my right-wing views I have been purged of just about all of them.

 

 

Let me be clear. I contributed to the downfall of the Labour party. The only thing stopping the Tories from coming back and waging class war on every person who is isn't deemed economically viable for the production of excessive profits.
 

 

I don't think I need to explain the rest …

 

 

I have helped the forces of evil break the very barriers down to corporatize the whole of the UK.

 

 

I am humbling myself and coming to your forum with a true desire but also a need to become a real Socialist.

[DJP]

An interesting story. But what is it you want to know? Have you any specific questions or topics you'd like to discuss?

[Fuzzy83]

Well I want to gain solidarity with other movements. Trade Unions etc.The current struggle that I am part of is Disabled People Against Cuts vs the Tories/UKIP who seem to be hell bent on increasing austerity and giving their rich mates all the privledges.The trouble is the majority of DPAC members are marginlised. We need true unity.I am in this for the long haul. I'm not just going to stop after the 2015 election. I want to see a revolution in the UK and have the corruption in the canary wharf ended for good.

[DJP]

Well I suggest you read this: http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/revolution-or-reformThen come back and tell us what you think.

[Fuzzy83]

The arguement that Capitalism brings many products of significant worth is being eroded today as we see the start of open source software on the internet show that a profit motive isn't the only thing which propels human beings to create.Other examples can be non-profit argiculture like Growing Power in Wisconson USA.I do believe Capitalism is like a one trick pony. You have to refresh the market to square 1. Its like a game of monoply.I agree that reforms always end up benefiting the Capital class. For example Labour brought in Tax Credits to top low incomes up but it just ended up as a means to subsidize employers so they can pay lower wages.People can go on about crony-Capitalism all they like but since Capitalism is a broken system we really do need something to replace it.I think if we harness peoples will to create things then Socialism is more than a possibility.

[ALB]

Capitalism being a world system, its replacement, socialism, can only be that too of course. The fact that capitalism is a world system is one reason why national governments are unable to reform it to make it work for the benefit of all but have to give in to world market pressures to give priority to profits and profit-making, inevitably to the detriment of the majority who depend for a living on having to find an employer to pay them a wage or salary.

[Fuzzy83]

I strongly agree.At the moment I am in favor of non-profit enterprise where people can be invited to work together and reap the collective benefits. I'm looking into an IT workshop and a community farm.As a disabled person this is extremly difficult though because there are days when my disability turns me into a raging lunatic or I have physical problems which prevent mobility. Despite being hounded to death by ATOS and the Job centre I am marching on.I also have another barrier and that is the majority of people in the area where I live favor UKIP and UKIP are at best extremly anti disability and anti workers right. While there is motivation to push ahead with a non-profit enterprise I wonder how I can some how pass it as a community project without being labeled as a threat to the nationalist regime which may be imposed in my area in the coming years.

[ALB]

Fuzzy83 wrote:

At the moment I am in favor of non-profit enterprise where people can be invited to work together and reap the collective benefits. I'm looking into an IT workshop and a community farm.

This wouldn't really be socialism, but only one way of surviving within the capitalist system, an alternative to working for a wage for some employer especially if you can't find one to take you on. But the "commanding heights" of the economy would still remain capitalist and this would affect and severely limit these small, marginal co-operatives.In fact, in legal terms, "not-for-profit" does not mean that such enterprises don'thave to seek to make a profit, but that any profit made has to be ploughed back into the business and cannot be distributed to individuals. They do have to make a profit, however small, just to survive. And of course, being in capitalism, they have to sell whatever they produce or whatever service they provide, and this in competition with other enterprises producing for the same market.The fact is that there is no way-out within the money-wages-profit system. The only lasting way forward is to make all natural and industrial resources the common property of all (or of nobody, the same thing) so that they can be used to turn out what people need and the application of the principle "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs". The end not only of production for profit but of working for wages, the market and money. In short, socialism.

[Fuzzy83]

Has anyone heard of the TUSC?

[alanjjohnstone]

The first thing i would say is that we fully understand how many workers drift into the BNP and other nationalist orientated organisations and have over the years had a few members who are ex-BNP. We have heard of TUSC and have criticised them for their own version of British nationalism/Little Englander regards the support for NO2EU.We also have a number of members who are disabled and been involved personally with disability groups.We make a vital difference between supporting particular reforms as people and workers on an individual basis and support for political reformISM as a party organiseation.

[Fuzzy83]

My only problem about globalisation is it gives too much power to corporations to exploit workers.For example the main reason people are angry about immigration is because the amount of jobs vs the amount of workers. It creates a even hostile economy for those trying to get a foot on the job ladder.Personally I have been raised by Asian people (My Doctors), Middle eastern people(Teachers), Jews(Neighbors), Born Again Christians(Family), Pagans(Family) and a whole multitude of different people. What pushed me towards these Nationalist groups was the constant racism accusations that eventually pushed me to the dark side. However this seems to be more dominant within the Socialist Workers Party and their Unite Against Fascism branch.I almost feel sorry for the SWP/UAF and the EDL/BNP because they are caught in a repetitive cycle that solves nothing. I had my spell in the EDL but I dropped out when I realized I was commiting huge amounts of moral wrong doings. Since then I have never looked back until I have been self reflecting.What are your opinions on the SWP? There is a lot of drama and controversy surrounding them on the left-wing?Do you think EDL members can change if someone like myself spends the time showing them how to unplug from the matrix and see the system for what it is?Is the TUSC a complete out of the EU group like UKIP is or do they want to offer a referendum? Personally I believe the EU courts of human rights is something we shouldn't give up too easily because its the only thing stopping us from having another Nazi state.

[ALB]

Fuzzy83 wrote:

My only problem about globalisation is it gives too much power to corporations to exploit workers.For example the main reason people are angry about immigration is because the amount of jobs vs the amount of workers. It creates a even hostile economy for those trying to get a foot on the job ladder.

I'm not sure this can be blamed on globalization as such. It probably has more to do with capitalism going through one of its slumps with increased unemployment meaning more competition for jobs. True, though, globalization — capitalist globalization of course — does place workers in an even weaker position compared to their employers. But the answer is not to try to counter the effects of globalization by trying to retreat behind the frontiers of the so-called nation-state but to move forward to global socialism.

Fuzzy83 wrote:

I almost feel sorry for the SWP/UAF and the EDL/BNP because they are caught in a repetitive cycle that solves nothing.

I don't know about feeling sorry for them but it's true that street-fighting between these rival gangs gets nowhere.

Fuzzy83 wrote:

What are your opinions on the SWP? There is a lot of drama and controversy surrounding them on the left-wing?

Not much. We see them as one of a number of vanguardist groups that seek to lead the workers by offering them simple slogans that don't go beyond capitalism because they think workers can't acquire a socialist understanding direectly or on their own.

Fuzzy83 wrote:

Do you think EDL members can change if someone like myself spends the time showing them how to unplug from the matrix and see the system for what it is?

Of course we think people can change their views, even "fascists" and racists. If we didn't think this we might as well give up.

Fuzzy83 wrote:

Is the TUSC a complete out of the EU group like UKIP is or do they want to offer a referendum?

It's not so much TUSC that are just another anti-EU group as No2EU, though both are supported by the same people (the RMT union and the old Militant Tendency who now call themselves SPEW). In fact SPEW claims to stand for the "Socialist United States of Europe" rather than an "Independent Britain". I don't think they call for a referendum but if there was one I think they would call for a vote to leave the EU (just as they called for a vote for Scotland to leave the UK).

Fuzzy83 wrote:

Personally I believe the EU courts of human rights is something we shouldn't give up too easily because its the only thing stopping us from having another Nazi state.

Yes, it is revealing that those who are always preaching "human rights" to other governments should want to withdraw from the European Court of Human Rights (which, incidentally, has nothing to do with the EU but is separate). But I don't think it's the only thing stopping us having another Nazi state ! The main thing stopping this is that  the vast majority don't want this and wouldn't stand for it. 

[jondwhite]

Hello Fuzzy83.I read your 14 year journey.Your interest in communes is interesting and shared with a number of socialists and always interesting to discuss. In fact commune type organisations is where some of the earliest socialist thought was focused in the 19th Century. Commune type organisations were popular then and existed for a number of years and are popular now. What happened in the 19th Century was the scientific socialism departed in a number of ways from the dream of self-sustaining communes into a philosophy where the history of society is the history of class struggle and the point is to change the wage-labour relationship in order to remove the ruling-class status.You'll no doubt encounter those stuck in the self-sustaining small commune (or co-operative) mindset some even calling themselves socialist. Fascism as you no doubt have discovered, also toys with self-sustaining commune and co-operative thought, despite some socialists attempts to deny this. This is possibly in the erroneous belief that interest in communes and co-operatives is a credit to fascism, it is not.Many find themselves at odds with Unite Against Fascism / the Socialist Workers Party and Trade Unions for many good reasons, so this isn't really an indicator of anything.Dalliances with Conservatives and migrant patriots don't tell us much either. You found the Conservatives a dead-end politically, calling them 'vermin' and described them as 'loathing', whereas you 'became good friends' and 'got on really well' with migrants. You even find some looking back to be 'painful'. It's not unusual for fascism or even conservative views to be highly emotive and based on personal experience whereas socialist inclinations to be more based in a different less-emotive sort of reasoning (and often more reading). A theory called Systematic Ideology might touch on this, the different psychologies of adherents of political philosophies, if you're interested.Back on topic, I'd disagree that Britishness is a description of which collective of people you want to be with.The British Labour Party has formed eight majority governments since universal suffrage in 1918. Not once have they waged anything other than class-war in the interests of the ruling-class. The idea that the British Labour Party are the only thing stopping the Tories waging class war is preposterous.And no, neither Tories nor Labour is the 'forces of evil' (which is use of more highly emotionally charged terminology), they represent the forces of capital whether in corporate form or national form, neither being the interests of the working-class which only the Socialist Party represents. On your other replies, solidarity or unity with movements is easy enough, just be solidly aligned and united to every movement going.As for a revolution in the UK, real socialists aim higher. Canary Wharf being the centre of finance capital in the UK is no more corrupt than the Confederation of British Industry which represents industrial capital in Britain. The focus on financial capital (and globalisation) and kid gloves on industrial capital (especially domestic capital) is one of the traits of fascist 'anti-capitalism'.Nations are a fiction, completely, the effects of this fiction are very real alright when it comes to war or dividing the working-class in other ways, but modern nation states with their false patriotism are an invention of the Victorian era. Benedict Anderson called them Imagined Communities in his seminal work's title. The UAF is a conveyor belt for the SWP. It is the single most successful source of recruitment. Who doesn't consider themselves anti-racist? Especially new students at universities? The SWP will not drop the UAF or play down the threat they perceive from fascism or UKIP as they use now. They will not ever accept that it is anything less than mortally dangerous. As such, they feel free to scream racism and persecute their selected opponents. Its highly emotionally charged appeal to the mob. Not authentic street working-class politics, but divisive and exclusive. This isn't to try and swing their opponents around, oh no, they've written them off. This stupidity isn't a socialist point of view. Alex Miles was prominent member of the BUF who left to become a 'real socialist'. Ricky Tomlinson had a fling with the National Front before claiming to espouse a more left-wing 'socialism'. It is not useful analysis to say Britain is in danger of becoming a Nazi state. The term Nazi is an emotionally-charged term used today for a long-bygone party. The far right in Britain is in a worse state than it has been for ages. UKIP's soft nationalism have stolen the nationalist thunder. Millions of people have this sort of soft nationalism, UKIP represent it and they win support. One of our jobs is to change this thinking.Hope this has been helpful.

[Fuzzy83]

This is more than useful. Its incredible. I will be learning a lot here for sure

[alanjjohnstone]

Genuinely, the SPGB are nothing like the left wing in our ideas and our approach which is often why the Left try to ostracise us by accusations of utopianism,sectarianism, but they often have to ackowledge that we do represent the authentic voice of Marxism hence their need to claim that Lenin and Trotsky updated and improved Marxism, something that can be re-phrased to say changed and corrupted Marxism!In regards to immigration, there is no doubt that an over-supply of workers can cut employment opportunities and hold back wages hence the reason a section of the bosses support less immigration control…but always remember they also use women and younger single workers to effect labour demand as well…and those who support stopping immigration are they also going to demand the return to the home and  kitchens for all women and the return of pay differentials for younger workers…i recall when i first started work i think it was 25 yr old before a person reached the top pay scale of wages (and earlier it was 30). Capitalism always makes worker compete with worker for work…whether its the guy in the next street , the next town… or the next country. That won't change by having stricter immigration…the target will simply shift to someone closer to be excluded. The SPGB has tried to engage the Mosley's BUF, the NF, the BNP in actual debate, much to the chagrin of the No Platformists (and by effect No Democracy, too, ) We have also tried to engage the Islamic radicals too…Our fight is not one of fists and boots on the streets but a battle of ideas in the head. That is a much bigger task.

[Author]

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