Luxemburg – Reform or Revolution?

[ALB]

The capitalist class would really have to be on their last legs to offer this which would undermine the wages system. I imagine that the mass socialist movement of the time would reject it with contempt and say they want nothing less than the unconditional surrender of the capitalist class. It's conceivable, I suppose, that they might say: we'll take the slice of bread but we still want the bakery and the wheatfields.

[Anonymous]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Ex-member and now member of Left Unity puts the case for the UBI here.http://leftunity.org/whats-the-alternative/

 Reformism is reformism, and it does not make any difference what they call it. UBI for the British workers only ? What about the workers from Africa, Asia, Latin America  ? 

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

The capitalist class would really have to be on their last legs to offer this which would undermine the wages system. I imagine that the mass socialist movement of the time would reject it with contempt and say they want nothing less than the unconditional surrender of the capitalist class. It's conceivable, I suppose, that they might say: we'll take the slice of bread but we still want the bakery and the wheatfields.

 No ruling class will shoot itself

[Brian]

ALB wrote:

The capitalist class would really have to be on their last legs to offer this which would undermine the wages system. I imagine that the mass socialist movement of the time would reject it with contempt and say they want nothing less than the unconditional surrender of the capitalist class. It's conceivable, I suppose, that they might say: we'll take the slice of bread but we still want the bakery and the wheatfields.

Precisely, but with the offer being forced on the working class we would still have a fight on our hands in persuading a majority this measure is a last ditch attempt to divide and distract them from the socialist objective.  I assume we would point out that in the long term its unsustainable and will eventually be withdrawn, and then wait for the inevitable to happen.

[northern light]

A Universal Basic Income. I need someone to explain how this might work. Surely the Global Market is fueled by the exploitation of cheap, non-union labour?

[ALB]

There's another thread here just on this. One of the posts there links to 2 articles from the Socialist Standard on the scheme:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/basic-income-reformismBasically, it's impracticable under capitalism and doesn't make sense in socialism.Welcome back, by the way.

[Brian]

Brian wrote:

ALB wrote:

The capitalist class would really have to be on their last legs to offer this which would undermine the wages system. I imagine that the mass socialist movement of the time would reject it with contempt and say they want nothing less than the unconditional surrender of the capitalist class. It's conceivable, I suppose, that they might say: we'll take the slice of bread but we still want the bakery and the wheatfields.

Precisely, but with the offer being forced on the working class we would still have a fight on our hands in persuading a majority this measure is a last ditch attempt to divide and distract them from the socialist objective.  I assume we would point out that in the long term its unsustainable and will eventually be withdrawn, and then wait for the inevitable to happen.

Which on reflection could well mean a reform *and* revolution situation arising, albeit purely on the 'speculative' dynamics of class struggle. 

[Author]

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