Less waffle from Peter Joseph

[Brian]

After reading this interview I thought it appropriate that some kind of balance be maintained with the other thread titled 'More waffle from Peter Joseph':  http://grantjkidney.com/peterjosephinterview/  It is in my opinion in complete contrast to his previous efforts to propagate the 'Train of Thought' of TZM.  See what you think.

[ALB]

I couldn't find it from the link you gave but I did indirectly here: http://grantjkidney.com/peterjosephinterview/ This also gives the written version of what he said. It certainly shows an evolution of Peter Joseph's thought towards a better understanding of capitalism, the State and exploitation. eg.

Quote:

For example, numerous studies on global poverty have shown that it has nothing to do with the technical capacity of food production or distribution. Rather, it has to do with the scarcity and profit “rules” inherent to the Monetary-Market Economy. The very idea of “equality” is anathema to the Market System. The class divisions we see are inherent and, simply put, the greater the equality, the less efficient the market.As an aside, James Madison, a huge influence on the creation of the US Constitution wrote, in effect, that democracy must be limited so the poor have less rights for, if they did have more say, they would naturally revise the economic laws to gain some of the immense “wealth of the nation” – the “wealth of the nation” which should “always be in control”, to paraphrase Madison.It is rather depressing how “patriotic” Americans in the lower classes, often touting their “freedom” and “anti-socialistic” paranoia, have no idea that the United States, the ostensible pinnacle of “democracy”, was actually built upon class elitism and oppression in many ways with the guiding philosophy being “economic” – not “democratic” or even “political” – when you really think about it.The grand illusion, of course, is that we can have “equality” in the citizenry on the political/democratic level in the wake of constant, inherent economic inequality and class warfare. Capitalism was realized as a system of social oppression to perpetuate a form of intuitive social darwinism that began during the age of Pharaohs… on to Kings and Feudalism, to Mercantilism, and then to its most sophisticated form of oppression – an oppression which gives the placating illusion of choice and freedom – the “free-enterprise” scam.As another aside, please note that these values of elitism are never thought about this way, however – the elites of history ALWAYS think the positions they hold and the state of class division is somewhat “divine” and that they are in the privileged position to take care of the rest. The intent is never truly malicious – it is always justified as an end-over-means process of rationalization and the very nature of modern economic thought, which rewards only a ruthless, narrow self-interest, serves this pattern well

Isn't this last point the Marxist theory of ideology!And:

Quote:

People talk about “freedom” in the Western world as though they have any in real terms. The average person spends most of their life sleeping and working – the working part existing in a clearly fascist corporate structure. I don’t use the term fascist loosely. The entire idea of a business/corporation is as undemocratic and hierarchical as you could possibly get in its present form and it embodies class warfare and exploitation by it very design. This is freedom? (….)Then there is the inherent coercion of the financial and debt system to force people into submission by default. The old illusion that this system allows for “choice” as though it is really “voluntary” is absurd. It is, again, a post-modern slavery system cut and dry where only now the slaves are not housed by their owners – they are given subsistence to fend for themselves, under the guise, again, that they have a “choice”. Coupled with this pressure are many structural safe guards to ensure the poor/lower class have no chance for large scale influence…

He even abandons the view that the system must first collapse economically, saying that it can be ended more or less peacefully by conscious majority action:

Quote:

GJK: Would it take a total economic break down to facilitate the beginnings of what the Zeitgeist Movement envisions for the world?PJ: It could happen with a rational consensus of the majority of the population. This is the general goal of TZM… To educate while the periodic crises inherent to Capitalism continue which will reinforce the need to evolve. (…)However, nothing can stop the masses if they finally shake the delusions put forward by years of propaganda to support their own subjugation and the class superiority of the “elite”. It really could fall like a house of cards if enough people really want it. As distant as that may seem, the pressures emerging with climate/resource/debt/war/poverty and the like today seem to show that a larger tide is shifting…. and TZM is trying to harness that growing global unity for change to bring the elephant down in a peaceful way. Again, we are all just people. The real revolution is the revolution if values. So, while “collapse” is catalytic, (if it doesn’t go too far) it isn’t actually needed if we can educate.

It just remains for him to recognise that "class warfare" is not just one of the evils of the system, but also the means to end it and he'll be a Marxist despite himself.Grant J. Kidney, on the other hand, appears from his site to be a nutter.

[Brian]

Although this interview appears to say that PJ is at last taking a class position and also elaborating on a peaceful democratic non-violent revolution it still remains to be seen whether or not he follows this through in the future by applying it to his 'leadership' of TZM. There are problems with the Australian, Colombian and UK Chapters and it will be interesting to see what solutions he will propose to satisfy all parties concerned and restrict any fallout.

[Author]

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