Left Unity.org / People’s Assembly
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Yes, Adam, I am broadly sympathetic to the Socialist Resistance article you link to, though I don't share the author's political standpoint – I am not a Leninist or Trotskist, nor a stagist, nor a revolutionary biding his time. I'm a libertarian socialist, wanting to work with other socialists, within a democratic context, trying to figure out a way forward and what a socialism of our century will look like.I'll leave it there as I seem to have exhausted the patience of some of your comrades, and they are right that the discussion started to go round in circle long ago. All the best
ALB wrote:Sorry, Robbo, you got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't saying that slump conditions are best for us. In fact I hold the opposite view (more workers turn to nasty nationalism as in the 30s and again now). What I was saying is that at the time many members did think this and dropped out when capitalism proved able to improve working class conditions, including their own, compared to the 30s.We also had our own "Revisionist" controversy which mirrored that started by Bernstein in the German Social Democratic Party at the turn of the century with some mermbers arguing that this development showed that a gradual evolution to socialism, e.g. more and more services becoming free, was possible (read the articles by Frank Evans in Forum and the arguments of Tony Turner). They and others left. We now know of course that it was the post-war boom that ended in the mid-70s that was exceptional not a standing pool of 5-6% unemployed that has existed since.So much for international solidarity then. Things may have improved for workers in post war Britain, with the welfare state, washing machines and cars, but what of the plight of workers around the world. Surely party members were aware of the bigger picture?Also, even if conditions improved dramatically for western workers during the post war boom years, there is still the fact that those same workers were still wage slaves, working fingers to the bone for a bit of comfort. Socialism is about more than just having the latest time saving gadgets and a cheap "Holiday in the Sun".Perhaps too many socialists got a little complacent and took their eye off the ball. Once that happens it's hard to regain control among a changing social and economic environment.
ALB wrote:Sorry, Robbo, you got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't saying that slump conditions are best for us. In fact I hold the opposite view (more workers turn to nasty nationalism as in the 30s and again now). What I was saying is that at the time many members did think this and dropped out when capitalism proved able to improve working class conditions, including their own, compared to the 30s.Fair enough, If thats your view, then I wouldnt disagree with you. I just thought you were taking the opposite view when in answer to SP question as to why the party membership slumped in the post war years you said: "There was no post-war slump and with more or less full employment in the 50s working class conditions improved compared with pre-war days, with workers acquiring household goods and even cars." Still , as I am discovering through my various interventions on sites like Revleft that the catastrophist view of socialist revolution is still widely endorsed – that it is going to take a really catastrophic crisis to shake workers out of their apparent slumber. Like you I take the view that that is, if anything, likely to make matters worse for the socialist movement, not better. Why did so many SPGBers back then think otherwise, I wonder?
robbo203 wrote:Why did so many SPGBers back then think otherwise, I wonder?Because nobody wants to fix the roof while the sun is shining.
Less than Left Unity regards Scottish nationalism if this Weekly Worker article is to go by.http://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1012/scotland-nothing-progressive-about-nationalism/In fact, it is rather depressing that despite all the good intentions claimed, the Trots (and i know of Mick Napier so i don't doubt its veracity) are up to their old tricks again. I have a short letter on Scottish nationalism in the same WW issue in response to a previous article on the referendum that i think reflected much of the party's position in regards to it but failed to mention the party that i sought to remedy with the letter.The WW also got confused on our vote in the Euro-election, that somebody can rectify.
alanjjohnstone wrote:The WW also got confused on our vote in the Euro-election, that somebody can rectify.What did they say and where exactly?
alanjjohnstone wrote:The WW also got confused on our vote in the Euro-election, that somebody can rectify.ALB wrote:What did they say and where exactly?Apparently we stood in the North-West "The other left groups contesting the Euro elections were the Socialist Party of Great Britain, which picked up 5,067 votes (0.29%) in the North West, 1,384 (0.19%) in Wales and 5,454 (0.23%) in the South East. For its part, the Socialist Equality Party won 5,067 (0.29%) in the North West, while the ultra-nationalist SLP managed 4,459 (0.61%) in Wales, the only region where it stood."It looks like they gave us the S.E.P. votes – from the penultimate para athttp://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1012/may-22-results-once-again-a-sorry-joke/
Quote:"The other left groups contesting the Euro elections were the Socialist Party of Great Britain, which picked up 5,067 votes (0.29%) in the North West, 1,384 (0.19%) in Wales and 5,454 (0.23%) in the South East. For its part, the Socialist Equality Party won 5,067 (0.29%) in the North West, while the ultra-nationalist SLP managed 4,459 (0.61%) in Wales, the only region where it stood."http://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1012/may-22-results-once-again-a-sorry-joke/It's a simple typo error, nothing sinister, just adding the SEP vote to ours to make it look like we too got the exact same vote. I thought it just give a pretext for another letter, that's all.
Thanks. They'll probably correct it themselves. There's another error in their report and that is that in Southampton ex-Labour councillor Keith Morrell was re-elected as a TUSC candidate. He stood as an Independent. See:http://www.southampton.gov.uk/Images/All_tcm46-357556.pdfScroll down to Coxford ward, noting on the way and after that in every other ward there was a candidate standing as TUSC. Could it be that Councillor Morrell thought that this label would be a vote loser?I like their obituary on the welcome demise of the ineffable No2EU.
I think the large xenophobic vote saw through the no2eu xenophobia and got behind the more authentically committed xenophobic ukip.
ALB wrote:Thanks. They'll probably correct it themselves. There's another error in their report and that is that in Southampton ex-Labour councillor Keith Morrell was re-elected as a TUSC candidate. He stood as an Independent. See:http://www.southampton.gov.uk/Images/All_tcm46-357556.pdfScroll down to Coxford ward, noting on the way and after that in every other ward there was a candidate standing as TUSC. Could it be that Councillor Morrell thought that this label would be a vote loser?I like their obituary on the welcome demise of the ineffable No2EU.I looked at the latest Weekly Worker (# 1013) and there was no correction from themselves or a SPGBer.
Anyone know what has happened to Left Unity? They seem to have been and gone, maybe because the Green Party has stolen all their clothes or maybe because they tried to steal that party's clothes and failed.
Being a purely electoralist marriage of convenience, nothing happens in Left Unity until parliament decide they want another general election, which could be later than 2015 if the Tories get their way. Unless there's another strike, in which case they will go for a walk and shout at people, but then Trots do that anyway with or without Left Unity.
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