Left Unity.org / People’s Assembly
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Hi Dave,I don't know a way of telling whether these are 'active' or 'passive' members as we're a new organisation. They're active enough to have signed up and paid a monthly subs. If the experience of our local group is a guide (it may be, it may not), then I would say that those who have signed up are fully active, and that for every one 'active' member, there are at least one or two, maybe more, potential, less active members, and beyond that a growing number of 'supporters', or people who are hoping it will be a success. Even assuming the optimistic scenario, this is nothing like enough to be a serious rival to the Labour party anytime soon. But, who doesn't know that?As for LU not being a socialist organisation, that's just the kind of sectarian silliness LU is hoping (perhaps, again, overoptimistically) to leave behind.CheersStuart
Hi StuartI think that it's a sad reflection of the times that we live in that even the thought of calling an organisation socialist can be seen as sectarian silliness. It seems to me that we need to repopularise the idea of socialism as being a democratic collectivist way of utilising the productive forces of a global society for the benefit of humanity as a whole and not the privileged few. Up until comparitively recently socialism was something that held no fear for workers in fact there was a popular mood towards it.
stuartw2112 wrote:As for LU not being a socialist organisation, that's just the kind of sectarian silliness LU is hoping (perhaps, again, overoptimistically) to leave behind.Sounds like a good epitaph for the new party. A bit too long perhaps.
It is just a new organization with a different label based on the same old Leninist principles proven to be totally incorrect, and which only conducts the working class to collaborate with their own capitalist rulers, and to establish state capitalismLeftism means reformism, and there is not essential difference between left and right, they are two eggs from the same nest and from the same bird: Capitalism. Both are tendencies based on the concept of leadership and personalitiesThe United Socialist Party of Venezuela integrated by different tendencies from the left , ( including Trotskyists, and Stalinists ) ,started with 5.7 millions of members,( at the present the membership is around one half ) and in the few years that they have been in control, they have benefited the capitalist class more than all the prior capitalist governments and political parties including the social democrats and the Christians social democrats.The Socialist Party of Great Britain was founded before the Bolshevik Party who had a large membership in Russia ( it became the CPof the Soviets ) and that party vanished from the face of the earth along with the left opposition which became small pieces controlled by leaders.The SPGB started to denounce Leninism and Bolshevism since the very beginning and history has proven that all their analysis were corrects, and still the left continue hammering on the same mistakes and they have not learned the lesson yet
Dave wrote:Hi StuartI think that it's a sad reflection of the times that we live in that even the thought of calling an organisation socialist can be seen as sectarian silliness. It seems to me that we need to repopularise the idea of socialism as being a democratic collectivist way of utilising the productive forces of a global society for the benefit of humanity as a whole and not the privileged few. Up until comparitively recently socialism was something that held no fear for workers in fact there was a popular mood towards it.Leftist and Leninist have transformed socialism from a theory of social-economical liberation of the world working class, into a theory of nationalists, anti-imperialists, and collaboration with the rulers of every nations. Most of the so called Communist Parties are just nationalist organizations of the place where they have been established. In the 21 Century there are more anti-communist workers and supporting capitalism than during the 19 century
ALB wrote:Interesting but isn't he more formerly of the parish of Occupy than of us? I see, though, that he still regards himself as a socialist though, unless he's boring from within the embryo new party to put across real socialist ideas, it seems to be Old Labourism.Incidentally, a "Left Party" has already been registered since the end of March with the Electoral Commission with Kate Hudson as Leader and Andrew Burgin as Treasurer. The variants on its name that it has registered give some clue as to what it's going to be like:Quote:fighting racism and warbuild hospitals and schools for equality and no to discrimination Left UnityIn other words, a left-of-Labour reformist party.
All the above mentioned reforms have also been promoted by some right wings groups, and some sectors of the capitalist class and some reformists leaders of workers unionsThe ICC has created the concept of left of capital and left of communism which is a wrong division because right or left are not relevant, and left is also part of capital
Dave: "It seems to me that we need to repopularise the idea of socialism as being a democratic collectivist way of utilising the productive forces of a global society for the benefit of humanity as a whole and not the privileged few."Left Party Platform Statement: "3. We are socialist because our vision of society is one where the meeting of human needs is paramount, not one which is driven by the quest for private profit and the enrichment of a few. The natural wealth, productive resources and social means of existence will be owned in common and democratically run by and for the people as a whole, rather than being owned and controlled by a small minority to enrich themselves."The one, socialist. The other, reformist nonsense. Obviously.
ALB wrote:stuartw2112 wrote:As for LU not being a socialist organisation, that's just the kind of sectarian silliness LU is hoping (perhaps, again, overoptimistically) to leave behind.Sounds like a good epitaph for the new party. A bit too long perhaps.
"The Socialist Party of Great Britain, therefore, entered the field of political action determined to wage war against all other political parties – and lost"That's yours.
ALB wrote:Looks as if this should be called Left Disunity:http://derekthomas2010.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/kate-hudson-has-usurped-the-goodwill-of-8000-anti-sectarians/It seems that the anti-Trotskyists are fighting to exclude at least the big Trot groups (SWP, SPEW) as they realise that admitting them would kill their project.Interesting, though, that TUSC seem to want to negotiate as if the Left Unity did get off the ground it would sink them. The final decision here of course rests with Bob Crow not SPEW.If they include those groups in the new Left unity, the SWP and SPEW will take control of all of them, therefore, there is not such new left unity. It is just another spli formed by leaders trying to form another sect.
I wonder how people here would report on the founding conference of the SPGB in 1904? Pah, it's just another bloody split from the already tiny and ineffectual Social Democratic Federation.No bugger turned up, apart from the usual suspects, and a few frauds who ended up as Labour and Communist leaders.It's doomed to failure. No one will ever unite in a socialist party, it's a dream.It'll never be able to compete with the Liberal Party anyway, so it's all a waste of time.That Jack chap's secretly leading the whole thing anyway. And he's a right dick, I've heard.What are the women doing here? They can't vote anyway! (Nah, and it don't make no difference whether they can or not, comrade – us working chaps can do the job.)Did you see their motion to reject the unions and set up their own was only narrowly defeated? The sectarian idiots!Etc.Etc.Etc.
I don't know where the SPGB got its reputation for being formidable debaters from. Must be some kind of internal myth, believed because it's repeated so often people come to believe it. My points at post 187 and 190 I believe effectively clear up here. Any questions from the floor?
By the way, everyone I've talked to in Left Unity rather likes the SPGB. Andrew Burgin says he likes you, a member of my branch reguarly talks about "the abolition of money", another demanded to know where he could buy a copy of the Socialist Standard, others take it seriously even if they don't agree with it. With your silly mudslinging and sectarianism, you are, as usual, missing a trick.
I think it is a very sad situation to leave the Socialist Party to join a Trotskyist organization
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