Jeremy Corbyn to be elected Labour Leader?

[jondwhite]

DJP wrote:

jondwhite wrote:

So now we have Corbynwho is popular among Labour memberswho is popular among Labour supporters who are not memberswho has purportedly engaged non-political people with high turnout meeting rallieswho is averse to personality politics, more keen on movements than leadership and not seemingly a product of focus groupswhose policies are popular among the general publicSo do we continue to attack the man or play the ball?

You've missed something from your list.."who is pushing the same old illusions that continually lock the working class into the reformist dead end"And this is "playing the ball" it's a comment on ideas, not the personality.

My point is stuff like that would have been more descriptive than the twitter image which read 'BS policies' or the Standard cover which said 'back to the 1970s' to which many voters might reply 'yes please'.

[imposs1904]

I'm not a big fan of some of the twitter stuff or this month's Socialist Standard front cover, but I still think that the coverage of Corbyn and his campaign within the pages of the Standard has been measured and well presented.

[Anonymous]

imposs1904 wrote:

Hurry up with the like button function, 'cos I like this post. What DJP said.

Likewise…

[alanjjohnstone]

The SPGB does not claim the infallibility of the Pope. Our case against reformism is one of our main positions but it isn’t Holy Scripture handed down to us. It was not Marx or Engels thought, nor Kautsky or others of the time. Our Declarations of Principles are not the Ten Commandments engraved in stone. They were conclusions reached by debate and discussion. We argue that what was learned by others before us is still shared by ourselves to this day and in our view events confirm its correctness. So we still hold by our D of P. We could well be wrong and many say we are but we try to explain why error is unlikely and we offer rebuttals to those  who question its wisdom.The formation of the SPGB was due to expulsions (and subsequent resignations) from the SDF and our political ideas stem from the lessons learned within that organization.Other socialists disagreed and remained within the SDF. Others felt they acquired different knowledge from their time in the SDF and went on to adopt the ideas of De Leon’s SLP (but they weren’t an exact carbon-copy but adapted to British conditions). Those who remained within the SDF consequently evolved and adopted other ideas on top of their Marxism such as Labourism and Leninism but they did not completely shed their socialist aspirations. Over time many re-defined what socialism is but it was not universal and for a lot on the Left a core of the tenets still existed to justify their self-description of socialist.All our opposition is not about denying our socialist opponents their socialist credentials but about challenging their concessions, compromises and gradualism to achieve it. Our task is the exact same as in 1904 – to muster fellow workers and fellow socialists under our banner, not to exclude them by insisting our socialism is the true socialism and no divergence can be permitted from the SPGB case. We say if you can’t prove our arguments wrong then join us. We also say the way we advocate and educate and agitate is something that is not fixed for all time either. We too are still adaptable and willing to adjust our approach to best fit circumstances and events but without surrendering our own principles purely for popularity. And if need be and we persist in remaining a very small political organisation, i am open to how we can make the most of what resources we possess to punch above our weight       

[Anonymous]

DJP wrote:

jondwhite wrote:

So now we have Corbynwho is popular among Labour memberswho is popular among Labour supporters who are not memberswho has purportedly engaged non-political people with high turnout meeting rallieswho is averse to personality politics, more keen on movements than leadership and not seemingly a product of focus groupswhose policies are popular among the general publicSo do we continue to attack the man or play the ball?

You've missed something from your list.."who is pushing the same old illusions that continually lock the working class into the reformist dead end"And this is "playing the ball" it's a comment on ideas, not the personality.

This is true…  up to a point.  In a climate where political consciousness remains abysmally low, and where workers are more heavily influenced by personalities than by policies, it is virtually impossible to separate ideas from the purveyors of those ideas.  Personalities, whether in the world of politics or elsewhere, figure very highly in the minds of workers, a fact reinforced by a discussion I had with someone last night who, despite a hundred years of experience of Labour Party policies, still extolled the 'virtues' of Keir Hardie.

[jondwhite]

Is there a view that individual non-SPGB-members like Corbyn or Keir Hardie are what is holding the SPGB back?

[Anonymous]

gnome wrote:

imposs1904 wrote:

Hurry up with the like button function, 'cos I like this post. What DJP said.

Likewise…

 And a dislike button.

[Anonymous]

So a large section of the SPGB believes the whole world – save us few members – is anti working class.. Corbyn is as bad as Hitler. But. we can forgive IDS? It's capitalism.Bout time we presented a logical case

[jondwhite]

Vin wrote:

So a large section of the SPGB believes the whole world – save us few members – is anti working class.. Corbyn is as bad as Hitler. But. we can forgive IDS? It's capitalism.Bout time we presented a logical case

I don't think its fair to accuse anyone of saying Corbyn is as bad as Hitler.

[Anonymous]

I think it is a fair extrapolation from the information members have given. but I am all ears and ready to here how Corbyn and Hitler differThen how Brand differs from Ian Duncan Smith? Then perhaps tell workers at the next election, instead of arguing that they are all the same  

[alanjjohnstone]

A 60% vote certainly gives him a mandate and the thank you speech was littered with sound-bites. But the one that stood out for me was."We are one world." But my hearing was confused at the beginning as he mounted the rostum…i kept hear "SPGB…SPGB.." being chanted…what was it really?

[imposs1904]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

A 60% vote certainly gives him a mandate and the thank you speech was littered with sound-bites. But the one that stood out for me was."We are one world." But my hearing was confused at the beginning as he mounted the rostum…i kept hear "SPGB…SPGB.." being chanted…what was it really?

 "Jezwecan"?

[ALB]

Surely it was "Jezwedid". Though that sounds more like SPD.

[imposs1904]

ALB wrote:

Surely it was "Jezwedid". Though that sounds more like SPD.

You're probably right.

[Anonymous]

We can take something possible from this. Rejection of cardboard cutout, career politicians.  His phrase 'One World'  And his favourite song is after all  Imagine.  

[Author]

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