Jeremy Corbyn to be elected Labour Leader?
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SocialistPunk wrote:That could also be said of us lot, YMS.
We are even against the JPF. We hate them more than we hate the Capitalists https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
Vin wrote:It is stereotyping, Corbyn openly rejected old 70s 'nationalisation'. And leadership.I don't know why you keep on trying to deny that Corbyn's policies represent a return to Old Labour/Left Social Democratic reformism and its Keynesianism and more government intervention in the capitalist economy. The cornerstone of his economic policy, so-called Peoples QE, is just another name for Keynes's policy of trying to spend your way out of a slump. As if it hadn't been tried in Britain in the 70s and failed and in France in the 80s and failed.How would you suggest we characterise his policies?
ALB wrote:How would you suggest we characterise his policies?That was not really the point I was making. His policies will leave capitalism intact. But does that mean base determines superstructure and twc and myself were right all along
Maybe this is a bit of fluff, but I thought it was interesting. From the New Statesman, a wee run down on Corbyn's team in his leadership campaign:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2015/08/who-s-who-team-corbynThe article neglects to mention that Kat Fletcher was a member of the Alliance for Workers Liberty at the time when she was elected NUS President in 2004, leaving the AWL soon after. (I bet they were pleased at that turns of events.). . . And I seem to remember reading – pre-internet, so I cannot verify it – that Jon Trickett was once upon a time a member of Independent Labour Publications, the left group that the Independent Labour Party became when it was re-admitted to the Labour Party in the mid-seventies.
imposs1904 wrote:. . . And I seem to remember reading – pre-internet, so I cannot verify it – that Jon Trickett was once upon a time a member of Independent Labour Publications, the left group that the Independent Labour Party became when it was re-admitted to the Labour Party in the mid-seventies.bit surprised you couldn't find confirmation of this on the internet. This is what the wikipedia entry for him says:
Quote:During the 1970s was a member of the ILP (the successor body of the Independent Labour Party) and contributed to their newspaper—the Labour Leader—and was elected for a number of years to the ruling body, the National Administrative Council.The ILP, that really would be a return not just to Old Labour but to Prehistoric Labour !
Cheers. I didn't even think to look at his wiki page.It was one those wee left trainspotter factoids that was lodged in the back on my brain. The other wee bit about Trickett and his time in the ILP – that isn't mentioned in the entry – is that he was supposedly part of a 'Leninist faction' that existed within the ILP at the time. I just wish I remember where I read it. I just seem to remember that that wee bit of juicy gossip was revealed in disparaging terms.
ALB wrote:ALB wrote:especially, now that 40 economists are reported to have endorsed Corbyn's economic programmeI've been trying to find out who these are and have only been able to come up with this:https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/ourkingdom/35-economists-back-corbyn's-policies-as-'sensible'The only names most people will be able to recognise are Steve Keen and Ann Pettifor. We reviewed a book by leftwing Keynesian John Weeks in the April 2004 Socialist Standard and two edited by Alfredo Saad in May and December 2004. Saad describes himself as a Marxist and, as the reviews recognise, explains Marxian economics well. All the stranger then that he doesn't realise that Corbyn's "proposal to fund public investment by the sale of bonds to the Bank of England" (so-called People's QE) is just Keynes in a new package and cannot work to make capitalism operate in the interest of the working class or even to get it to "grow" again. Or perhaps he does and is just agreeing that Corbyn has opened an interesting discussion on economic policy.The media are reporting that Danny Blanchflower has also signed up. The former member of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee, that is. A bit more of a catch.
One of the signatories, James Meadway, has just penned an article where he places 'Corbynomics' to the right of the SDP's 1983 election manifesto:http://www.leftfutures.org/2015/08/extreme-back-to-the-80s-how-corbynomics-compares-with-the-sdp-manifesto/PS -Meadway'a background is SWP but he was part of the Counterfire split, and continues to be a member of that grouping.
An A5 double-sided leaflet and an A3 poster produced by Kent & Sussex branch
Quote:How would you suggest we characterise his policies?Been away for a few days and i think what some people over-looked from my last post is that our focus should not be on Corbyn the prospective Labour Party leader, at all, but on the reasons why he has gained such sympathy and support plus genuinely has given certain ruling class elements some fear and trepidation, something that i haven't previously noticed. If added to the Scots Referendum result of the independence vote and the subsequent election result, which BrianG described in his Scool talk but which i think not many members have fully taken aboard, i do detect now a willingness of my fellow workers to seek political alternatives that are not simply PR party-spin such as Blair's Third Way was but fundamental issues. I am very curious about this shift in political consciousness that may well be a follow up to Occupy…decentralise power and take it from the Rich Elite. We are failing to identify the aspirations of our fellow workers and until we manage that, we cannot engage with them effectively.We can have a field day deconstructing Corbyn's fiscal and financial policies but as i said previously i am more interested in the motivation of why people now rejecting "expert" or "mainstream" media and BBC analyses and go with their gut feelings that there must be something else out there and the more the Establishment attacks it, the more it must be "correct"It could well be merely a blip in the manipulation of the electorate but also something deeper, perhaps material conditions of austerity and cutbacks are having their social consequences and peoples' politics are changing despite "ruling class ideas prevailing" to paraphrase Marx.Are we at a crossroads? If i think so then we should be asking many more questions on the lines of how do we characterise our rival case and present our own as the realistic other option. I know we, at this moment in time, have little influence so i am not as critical as Vin and Imposs of one approach, for the simple reason is that few in real numbers if any will actually be alienated if we get it wrong. I am on record as saying let a thousand flowers bloom in our propaganda and campaigns and that we should not have a political approach which is one-size fits all. Trial and error will always provide an insight in how well we do (but that leads to one question…how do we measure success in communication and more importantly, who are we aiming our message at.)YMS suggests that we waste resources criticising Cameron …true enough…shooting fish in a barrel on certain policies such as the cuts …Not so when it comes to others such as immigration because he has the support of Labour Party voters and i would guess the majority of the electorate backs his stance to some degree. We still have a lot of persuading and convincing to do across the broad political spectrum.Corbyn and the Labour Party?? I don't think we can simplify it down. I think we must de-eulogise Corbyn as much as the Right demonise him and counter the rhapsodies that some are singing in his praise. It's painful for some to see their idols stripped to the bare bones of their ideas but it has to be done. So KSRB go for it in the way you think will resonate with your audience. A lot of it is targetting your audience. But our problem is not the negative attacks that as a Party we have become so adept at over the 100-plus years of our existence. We have to offer socialism …OUR socialism, the real socialism that goes back to the 1840s and earlier, (so like Imposs i'm not impressed by referring to past decades as something that exposes our rivals).I think, and shoot me down by all means, but i feel the we are approaching a moment in history that BIG IDEAS are again on the agenda to be discussed and debated. On the Paul Mason thread i think this is being shown – Piketty a couple of years ago, Brand last year…Radical solutions being published mainstream once again not on the margins and peripharyIf we are to have an input then it is the FUTURE we must direct the attention towards. Socialism is something for the here and now to be heard and known.We have to characterise our criticsm of Corbyn by explaining, describing and detailing our alternative and that doesn't require even a passing mention of Corbyn's policies except merely saying how conservative and short-sighted he really is but we concentrate our case more to do with the "values" he is supposedly representing. (We are yet to define these "values" just as Corbyn's rivals have so dramatically failed in their purge campaign." We have never had a problem showing the virtues of socialism, it has always been an issue of "can it work"…when we see, regardless of how vaguely or generalised it is, new and old left, wanting social change, it is those people we have to reach out to for recruits. We need to poach them from their existing organisations. First, we must be clear on what we are fighting for and demonstrate that these objectives are the same to what people are also wanting in New New Labour, once the slogans and the ideological props are kicked away…a hope for a new world…and to steal from an anarchist also, new hope in our hearts.To sum up …and we have all heard it said …we have to story to tell and it is in the way of telling it which will determine if people will listen of not. And a story has many chapters to recount its narrative. Enough for now…
The main way to measure the main party propaganda would be a breakdown of the circulation figures of the Socialist Standard. Last figures I saw showed paid sales where overwhelmingly to subscribers or branches. Unfortunately I don't think covers like septembers will encourage any new interest or any of the Corbyn surge to pick up and read.
In an article in yesterday Times, this is how he describes his campaign:
Quote:My campaign, guided by ideas of social justice and prosperity for all rather than a select few, is one of pragmatism: for a strategic approach in which business, the state and the population work co-operatively to create wealth; and for that wealth to reach all sections of society and all regions and nations of our country.That's so vague that even the Tories could subscribe to it, let alone the defunct SDP.Ir's true that he also says that, under his Leadership, the parliamentary Labour Party will fight all the Tories' austerity measures tooth and nail. That would be a change, but won't stop them. And it still leaves open what he proposes a future Labour government should do to try to end it. In this article it's "a well-structured public investment bank" to provide "stable, long-term committed capital" to "support our most innovative sectors". This is almost word for word what the Labour Party was promising even in the 1950s. From our knowledge of how capitalism works, and can only work, we know this won't work and can't see why we shouldn't say so.
jondwhite wrote:Unfortunately I don't think covers like septembers will encourage any new interest or any of the Corbyn surge to pick up and read.We can put this to the test. This year's Labour Conference is being held in Brighton from Sunday 27 to Wednesday 30 September. I'm sure that members of our Brighton Group as well as some from London will be there to cover it, especially if it turns out to be Corbyn's first Conference speech as Leader. There might be some competition as in that event everybody else will be there as well.
This survey may be of interest and figure-crunchers within the party may offer an analysis of them and try to translate it into practical policies for ourselves to try and apply and benefit from.https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/08/27/you-may-say-im-dreamer-inside-mindset-jeremy-corby/
Hopefully I'm wrong and it will appeal to Labour supporters. It might have the unintentional effect of appealing to disaffected and disillusioned New Labour supporters as they're the only ones without a leader being teased on the cover.
People interested in politics again. We can capture this if we give out the right signals. All his venues are bursting at the seams
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