Jeremy Corbyn to be elected Labour Leader?
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lanz the joiner wrote:On August 16th The Socialist Party (@OfficialSPGB) tweeted along with a picture of Jeremy Corbyn's face superimposed onto a Marmite jar:"We oppose reformism for diverting people away from real socialism, and prolonging the profits-before-people system."On the WorldSocialism.org How the SPGB Is Different From Others page, it is written that:"The SPGB and our companion parties in the WSM neither promotes, nor opposes, reforms to capitalism."Is this an inconsistency, or is it the case that opposing "reformISM" is not the same thing as opposing "reformS".
Reformism is the belief that all the problems of capitalism can be overcome step by step through the incremental addition of piecemeal reforms.An individual reform is just that, an individual reform. Certain reforms, such as the legalisation of trade union activity, will be benificial to the whole of the working class though at the same time cannot overcome the root problems..
September 2015 Socialist Standard out this Friday.
The Capitalist Newspapers also claimed that Corbyn wished to go back to the 70sThe capitalist newspapers probably also believe that the Socialist Party wish to go back to the 70s
We are small in numbers and we dont get a chance to say much, When we do I dont think our publication should give the appearance of supporting the capitalist propaganda machine. There are many issues of importance to the working class and corbyn is the least of our worries.Why spend our few resources attacking the only people who defend the poor and working class in public. Workers around me are dying because of benefit sanctions and poverty. I would like to see the front page of the SS dealing with these issues and attracting workers to our movement instead of alienating them in their thousands.
ALB wrote:But he does.Doesn't mean it should be on the front cover of the SS. I can give you a million 'facts' that would attract workers better
Come off it, if he wins on 12 September everyone will be talking about it, in fact even if he only just loses. The editorial committee has to try to anticipate what's likely to be of interest to people in the month the issue is going to be sold.
Bit of a waste of our time attacking Tories, we're looking for people who aleady reject conservative thinking; IMNSHO the people who feed delusions and misnformation about being able to remodel capitalism are much more dangerous than an honest Tory attacking the poor.
We all get that it's an attempt at a Private Eye'ish style front cover, but I'm not a fan. Vin's right: The Corbyn speech bubble feeds into the narrative being pushed down people's throats in the media right now. It's lazy and it's alienating. Some Party members just don't get it.And what's with the Cameron speech bubble and the 1870s gibe? Disraeli's One Nation Toryism was in power for the second half of the 1870s and it was a bastard sight more progressive than the class warriors currently in power. You don't have to be a historian of the 19th century to know that: A quick glance at his wiki page could have told you that.From the wiki page:Reforming legislation[Under the stewardship of Richard Assheton Cross, the Home Secretary, Disraeli's new government enacted many reforms, including the Artisan's and Labourers' Dwellings Improvement Act 1875,[176] which made inexpensive loans available to towns and cities to construct working-class housing. Also enacted were the Public Health Act 1875, modernising sanitary codes through the nation,[177] the Sale of Food and Drugs Act (1875), and the Education Act (1876).[176] Disraeli's government also introduced a new Factory Act meant to protect workers, the Conspiracy and Protection of Property Act 1875, which allowed peaceful picketing, and the Employers and Workmen Act (1875) to enable workers to sue employers in the civil courts if they broke legal contracts. As a result of these social reforms the Liberal-Labour MP Alexander Macdonald told his constituents in 1879, "The Conservative party have done more for the working classes in five years than the Liberals have in fifty."
Young Master Smeet wrote:Bit of a waste of our time attacking Tories, we're looking for people who aleady reject conservative thinking; IMNSHO the people who feed delusions and misnformation about being able to remodel capitalism are much more dangerous than an honest Tory attacking the poor.You inadvertently make my point. We seek to attract people who have rejected conservative thinking, we should not be attacking them.
imposs1904 wrote:We all get that it's an attempt at a Private Eye'ish style front cover, but I'm not a fan. Vin's right: The Corbyn speech bubble feeds into the narrative being pushed down people's throats in the media right now. It's lazy and it's alienating. Some Party members just don't get it.Exactly, and why should a worker open the pages
OK there are better examples
Young Master Smeet wrote:Bit of a waste of our time attacking Tories, we're looking for people who aleady reject conservative thinking; IMNSHO the people who feed delusions and misnformation about being able to remodel capitalism are much more dangerous than an honest Tory attacking the poor.In one respect of course these people who you say "already reject conservative thinking", in fact haven't, otherwise they wouldn't be thinking that capitalism can be made to work in their interests, if only they're successful in electing the 'right' leader; they would have already rejected that conservative mindset and be looking for a genuine revolutionary alternative.If a Corbyn-led government ever comes to power disenchantment will be inevitable (and what could be more destructive to workers' morale than to suffer 'betrayal' at the hands of a so-called 'reasonable' and 'friendly' politician?) and thus one can confidently predict diminishing support for Labour will soon follow.This is why it is so important for socialists to explain why a vote for Corbyn is actually a vote for the Tories – in the long run.
gnome wrote:This is why it is so important for socialists to explain why a vote for Corbyn is actually a vote for the Tories – in the long run.Yes this is true but I think its is also true that we should be a bit more discriminating in our criticism of Corbvn. Impressions count and there are discernable differences between Corbyn's approach to politics and the values he evidently espouses and that of, say, Cameron. Unquestionably from a socialist perspective Corbyns approach, what he thinks matters in life, is nearer to ours than Cameron's even though at the end of the day, Corbyn is no more than a capitalist politician. I think Vin has a point but I think it is also possible to integrate this point with a robust criticism of Corbyn himself. He cannot be left off the hook and we would be remiss in not attacking the policies he advocates – but tactfully, I would suggest, and taking due account fo the fact that at least his heart seems to be in the right place
imposs1904 wrote:We all get that it's an attempt at a Private Eye'ish style front cover, but I'm not a fan. Vin's right: The Corbyn speech bubble feeds into the narrative being pushed down people's throats in the media right now. It's lazy and it's alienating. Some Party members just don't get it.And what's with the Cameron speech bubble and the 1870s gibe? Disraeli's One Nation Toryism was in power for the second half of the 1870s and it was a bastard sight more progressive than the class warriors currently in power. You don't have to be a historian of the 19th century to know that: A quick glance at his wiki page could have told you that.From the wiki page:Reforming legislation[Under the stewardship of Richard Assheton Cross, the Home Secretary, Disraeli's new government enacted many reforms, including the Artisan's and Labourers' Dwellings Improvement Act 1875,[176] which made inexpensive loans available to towns and cities to construct working-class housing. Also enacted were the Public Health Act 1875, modernising sanitary codes through the nation,[177] the Sale of Food and Drugs Act (1875), and the Education Act (1876).[176] Disraeli's government also introduced a new Factory Act meant to protect workers, the Conspiracy and Protection of Property Act 1875, which allowed peaceful picketing, and the Employers and Workmen Act (1875) to enable workers to sue employers in the civil courts if they broke legal contracts. As a result of these social reforms the Liberal-Labour MP Alexander Macdonald told his constituents in 1879, "The Conservative party have done more for the working classes in five years than the Liberals have in fifty."Good point Imposs1904. The Tories in power today are gonna continue to overturn as many reforms, that benefit us the working class, as they can in the next five years.So the front cover of the Sept' Socialist Standard is gonna be wholly inaccurate. Unless it refers back to when Cameron was in opposition and playing the part of Mr Nice, in an attempt to shake the cold blooded Thatcher image of conservatism. But now he doesn't need to pretend.And I don't get the Farage bit, surely Farage has a favoured political historical period? But it aint easy coming up with ideas for the front page of the Standard that'll please everyone.
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