Jeremy Corbyn to be elected Labour Leader?
- This topic has 621 replies, 26 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
ALB wrote:You don't appear to have read The Road to Wigan Pier.
2nd Warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
How low can the media go?Even though we all reject Corbyn we can all agree that the cross-media concentration on alleged Corbyn's anti-semitism and the strange omission that the other candidates are not being investigated for such skeletons in the closets (don't tell me they don't have them because i refuse to believe that) does demonstrate that there is an odious smear campaign being conducted. Again it brings up questions beyond the Labour leader elections on the issue of democracy and the "free" press.Once more a follow up press release on such a topic could be issued, a condemnatory statement perhaps based on John Keracher's Head Fixiing pamphlet or from our own archive material …May i suggest someone such as Ivan of the greasy pole column with such an extensive personal knowledge of politicians, politics and the media be approached for assistance in drafting it.
Interesting article in yesterday's Daily Torygraph by Mary Riddell under the heading "Corbyn is no monster and might even help to regenerate Labour" warning Tories that the influx of young, new supporters into the Labour Party might help it regain vigour and support, especially if the Tories go too far in their poor-bashing and union-bashing as they risk doing:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11810687/Jeremy-Corbyn-is-no-monster.-He-might-even-be-the-saviour-of-the-Labour-party.htmlMeanwhile Russell Brand sort of endorses him:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/russell-brand-praises-jeremy-corbyn-for-being-the-voice-of-ordinary-people-and-describes-tony-blair-as-really-eerie-10462299.html
Murdoc says "Corbyn increasingly likely Labor winner. Seems only candidate who believes anything, right or wrong." http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/20/rupert-murdoch-backs-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership Brand said:“This Jeremy Corbyn, he’s mad isn’t he, with his railing against austerity and being against the Iraq war – which we definitely should have done – and being against bombing Syria and opposing benefit caps and warning against the dangers of immigration controls and wanting to scrap Trident and wanting to provide free education for young British people and challenging sexism and thinking half of MPs should be women and that the Cabinet should be elected and believing in renationalising energy companies and rail so that they can be correctly regulated in harmony with the ecology, and wanting to bring in rent controls in London and build 240,000 more homes each year and reduce the deficit with a progressive tax and reintroduce 50% higher rate tax for high earning people and disagree with the monarchy but saying he won’t fight it. What an absolute lunatic.”
Lets use our crystal balls for a moment…Corbyn wins…shock horror…he is then undermined by the Labour Party's party machine as leader and either is sacked by no confidence motions or forced into a resignation …whatever …Will the outcome be a renewed and refreshed enthusiasm for Left Unity, as an alternative…or will leftists conduct a Militant-style rear-guard action within Labour?I am reluctant to say it is a nail in Labour's coffin because it has already had so many nails in it…yet still people vote for it…except in Scotland… but England…simply no choice there, is there?…Not for us to advise the Left but what strategy have they if Corbyn is kicked out before the next election which i think is a realistic assumption…More to the point, what are our tactics if i am wrong and in 4 or 5 yrs Corbyn's left-wing Labour Party contests the election… Do we concentrate on deflating their optimistic balloon, exposing their fallacies, becoming more visibly anti-Labour thus in a way offering support for the status quo of the Right…Or do we endeavour to push Labour further "leftwards" with appeals to it for real genuine socialsm and ignore the Tories in our campaign. Using their so-called "values" against them. I'm not expressing myself very well but i am sure some know what i'm getting at and can suggest other and better publicity strategies for us to start contemplating and engaging in now.
alanjjohnstone wrote:Lets use our crystal balls for a moment…Corbyn wins…shock horror…he is then undermined by the Labour Party's party machine as leader and either is sacked by no confidence motions or forced into a resignation …whatever …It is more likely, surely, that once ensconced in power, he will make a bid for for centre ground – that is seek to establish a left-centre government. He will obliged to make sops to the conservatives (AKA New Labourites) within the Party to ensure a degree of party unity (not to mention a wider political appeal) and the latter, mindful of the populist support for Corbyn and the fate that befell the breakaway SDP and its "gang of four" some years ago , will probably grudgingly, fall in line with the occasional sniping from the sidelines. De facto Tories like that war criminal, Tony Blair , have little credibility in the eyes of the public and there is no significant or recognised figure – such things are important in a population swayed by the principle of leadership – around which a coherent opposition to Corbyn could materialise leading to a viable breakaway. The current leadership contest is perhaps proof of that: 3 duds versus someone who at least gives a plausible impression of being principled. In any event, the policies of Corbyn are sufficiently vague to allow for a considerable degree of political gymnastics in the form of seeking to accommodate his right wing critics. And of course if and when a Corbyn-led Labour Party were to come to power it would be obliged to administer capitalism in the only way it can be administered – in the interests of capital and against the interests of wage labour. One way or another, Corbyn is foredoomed to "betray" his (at present) wildly enthusiastic supporters – not because of his lack of political commitment to what he believes in (his style of "conviction politics", after all, is precisely what people find attractive about him) but rather in spite of it
Yes that is a more plausible scenario, Robbo. A few remarksThe media can create the "prominent" profile of right-wingers and, i think, there are many for them to pick from.The LibDems are no longer seen as "liberal" small l after alliance with Conservatives for any groups like the SDP to defect to and so the right must fight within the Labour Party. Your crystal ball views Corbyn as being less principled and more opportunistic than many other commentators suggest but as Tsipras shows if you are genuine and sincere, you eventually cede power, not hold on to it, once the purpose of holding office is made superfluous. Could Corbyn pinch his nose and see his future Labour Party manifesto watered down so much that it becomes a homeopathic remedy… merely retaining the past memory of his "radicalism" But if still a member of the SPGB, how would you suggest we aim and concentrate our fire on Labour if you do have them correctly targeted, Robbo?
I met someone last night who had been barred from voting (and lost his £3) on the grounds that he didn't share the aims and values of the Labour Party. He freely admitted this but said he wanted to support Corbyn because of his anti-war stance. Corbyn is, after all, the chair of the Stop the War Coalition and has even suggested that Tony Blair could be put on trial as a war criminal for plotting to invade Iraq.As to the likely effect of a Corbyn victory, I think the main effect will be on "The Left" (those who go on protest demonstrations). Those who stayed in the Labour Party will benefit at the expense of those who left. Left Unity will have no reason to continue in existence. Corbyn will have done what Ken Loach originally wanted — become the leftwing populist equivalent of UKIp and Nigel Farage. TUSC must surely wither away even quicker with their plan to create a Labour Party Mark 2. This won't be necessary and the support they've managed to get from some genuine trade unionists and Old Labourites will transfer back to the Labour Party. Some Labourites who've deserted to the Greens might come back.It's not so clear whether or not Corbyn would be able to change the Labour Party. After all, there aren't 30 Labour MPs who agree with him. He only got nominated because some Labour grandees did so because they wanted to humiliate him and show that the Labour Left only had 5 or 6 percent support amongst Labour activists. A decision they are living to regret.As to Corbyn leading the Labour Party into victory at the 2020 general election. Frankly, I don't see it. He'll be 71 and the Tory press haven't really started on him yet, let alone the CIA who won't like his anti-war and anti-NATO stand and will be plotting to bring about his downfall at this very moment. And of course most people are not Leftwing.But even a Labour victory under him won't change capitalism. Alex Tsirpas could tell him a thing or two about that.
Jeremy Hardy reports he has been barredhttp://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/21/jeremy-hardy-labour-rig-leadership-election-corbynAs for the SPGB approach, there does seem to be a disproportionate amount of condemnation for Corbyn and not much about the campaign against him or even the other Labour candidates. Corbyns popular and the other candidates are not, maybe the disproportionate criticism of Corbyn is about shunning popularity (not even populism) for its own sake?
ALB wrote:Interesting article in yesterday's Daily Torygraph by Mary Riddell under the heading "Corbyn is no monster and might even help to regenerate Labour" warning Tories that the influx of young, new supporters into the Labour Party might help it regain vigour and support, especially if the Tories go too far in their poor-bashing and union-bashing as they risk doing:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11810687/Jeremy-Corbyn-is-no-monster.-He-might-even-be-the-saviour-of-the-Labour-party.htmlThe article has a good point. Was talking about this with my dad the other day. It's weird that any Tory would think "sabotage voting" for Corbyn would be a good idea. But I think we can all picture the type of Tory supporter that might actually take part in such stupid, for want of a better word, tactics.The Tories only won power with 24% of the electorate. It's a safe bet that most Tory supporters are likely to turn out at major elections, knowing the importance of supporting their ideology. If we consider there was only a two million vote difference between Labour and Conservative, it's not a strong position. And I think both Tories and Labour are mistaken in thinking the surprise election result, is an endorsement of continued austerity measures.Two factors are key as far as I can tell. Firstly, the Tories are continuing with their austerity plans, (while the tax avoiding rich get richer). The longer austerity continues the more people will start to feel it, as cutbacks continue impacting public services. If the British economy doesn't explode in an upturn by the next election, the mood of the electorate will likely be extremely hostile towards the Tories.In such a scenario, if Corbyn can manage to invigorate Labour politics, especially with younger voters, hey presto Labour win the next election.I don't see the major problem for Corbyn and his politics in winning the next election. If the circumstances are right, it could be a breeze. The problem for his politics is how to deliver if the global economy is still in a down cycle.
Actually, while no government or state can control the way the capitalist economy works they can control how the armed forces are deployed. So, a leftwing Labour government under Corbyn would be able to decide not to use them to support the US government's adventures just as the French and German governments did over the invasion of Iraq. Even a Corbyn win as Labour leader could stop the British state bombing Islamic State areas in Syria, so avoiding "collateral damage" to the civilians the ISIS barbarians are oppressing.
alanjjohnstone wrote:Yes that is a more plausible scenario, Robbo. A few remarksThe media can create the "prominent" profile of right-wingers and, i think, there are many for them to pick from.The LibDems are no longer seen as "liberal" small l after alliance with Conservatives for any groups like the SDP to defect to and so the right must fight within the Labour Party. Your crystal ball views Corbyn as being less principled and more opportunistic than many other commentators suggest but as Tsipras shows if you are genuine and sincere, you eventually cede power, not hold on to it, once the purpose of holding office is made superfluous. Could Corbyn pinch his nose and see his future Labour Party manifesto watered down so much that it becomes a homeopathic remedy… merely retaining the past memory of his "radicalism"I think he will have to, Alan, if he gets power or, more to the point, if he is to get into power. He will find some way of backpeddling and backtracking on his principles – they always do. Its a pity because he comes across as not yer usual run-of-the-mill career politician – dull grey suits like the other 3 candidates for the Leadership and boring as fuck with their dreary cliches and their well-honed question-evading instincts that is the necessary accoutrement of any well trained politician
alanjjohnstone wrote:But if still a member of the SPGB, how would you suggest we aim and concentrate our fire on Labour if you do have them correctly targeted, Robbo?Difficult to say. I agree with one or two commentators here that it doesnt do to just focus on Corbyn. Yes Corbyn is gonna fail even if he succeeds in becoming 1) Labour leader and then 2) Prime Minister in the event of a Labour victory. You cant run the abbatoir in the interests of the cattle and we would be remiss in not pointing that out. But we would be equally remiss in not also pointing that Corbyns Labour rivals are just as foredoomed to fail as are his capitalist political opponents outside of the Labour PartyIts a question of striking the right balance and it rather depends on who you are actually talking to at the time, I guess…
jondwhite wrote:Jeremy Hardy reports he has been barredhttp://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/21/jeremy-hardy-labour-rig-leadership-election-corbynHis crime seems to have been to have called for a vote for Caroline Lucas in Brighton at the general election. As he points out, quite a few Labour supporters will have voted for her. What this shows is the "Labour's aims and values" are simply to elect Labour MPs and councillors, i.e that the Labour Party is just a vote-catching machine (as are of course the other main parties).He's right that this is an attempt to rig the election by barring Corbyn votes. No doubt others will be planning to "vote early and vote often" (as they say in Northern Ireland) for the other candidates.They're keeping in reserve the Stop Corbyn ploy of getting the result declared void in the event of him winning:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/21/andy-burnham-campaign-hint-challenge-labour-leadership-voteThey are getting really worried and it's instructive (as well as amusing) to watch and see the methods professional politicians are prepared to employ to protect their careers. Actually, it's a lose-lose situation for the professional politicians in the Labour Party. Either Corbyn wins and their careers are in danger or, if he doesn't, the Labour Party will stand exposed as undemocratic and corrupt and that will endanger their careers too. Serve them right.
Corbyn obviously hasn't read 'essential reading for all Labour leadership candidates:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli
Jerymy Corbyn is following me on twitter so I am sending him some info Is he following our twitter account?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.