Is the Pope a Marxist?

[alanjjohnstone]

Something worth reading on religious politics.http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/12/25/new-pope-old-doctrine/

[Anonymous]

He is just the new Chameleon of the Vatican and the Jesuits

[ALB]

Here's the Pope on what the war between the Islamic State and the West is really about:http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/27/europe/france-church-attack-aftermath/

Quote:

There is a war of interest, there is a war for money, a war for natural resources, a war to dominate people. Some might think it is war of religion. It is not.

A Papal Non-Bull then.

[Bijou Drains]

Should we send him a Form A to complete?the least we could do is a free three month subscription to the Socialist Standard. Thinking about it, considering the last Pope's views, the Vatican might be a bit sensitive about things that have SS as there initials.

[Anonymous]

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

Should we send him a Form A to complete?the least we could do is a free three month subscription to the Socialist Standard. Thinking about it, considering the last Pope's views, the Vatican might be a bit sensitive about things that have SS as there initials.

When I was very young I met many Jesuits who were more political advanced than him, and some were taken to prison due to their political view, and they can not be considered as Marxists.The  Vatican wants to cover up  his enrollment with the reactionaries military forces of Argentina, and the assassination of bishop Romero.( considered as a communist by them )   The Vatican wanted Romero  to be killed, and in Argentina priests were denounced by other priests during the dictatorshipGeorge Soros has criticized capitalism. Does that make him a Marxist ?  He is just another capitalist crookThe proponents of the so called liberation theology can not be called as Marxists either, including Camilo Torres who became a guerrilla father, and the pope does not support them.There is a Salesian priest who participated in workers strikes,and street demostrations, and the Vatican asked  the government to deport him to another country Sometimes peoples like to talk shits without checking history or checking the appropriate principles.The new Pope is not a Marxist, he is not a Socialist-communist either , he is just the representative of a reactionary institution called the Catholic Church, he is just the new CEO wearing different mask.Pio XII, and Paul I  had more advanced conceptions than him and they were not  Marxists either, According to David Yallop in one of his books he indicated that they killed Paul I to be replaced by the anti-communists Paull II

[Bijou Drains]

mcolome1 wrote:

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

Should we send him a Form A to complete?the least we could do is a free three month subscription to the Socialist Standard. Thinking about it, considering the last Pope's views, the Vatican might be a bit sensitive about things that have SS as there initials.

When I was very young I met many Jesuits who were more political advanced than him, and some were taken to prison due to their political view, and they can not be considered as Marxists.The  Vatican wants to cover up  his enrollment with the reactionaries military forces of Argentina, and the assassination of bishop Romero.( considered as a communist by them )   The Vatican wanted Romero  to be killed, and in Argentina priests were denounced by other priests during the dictatorshipGeorge Soros has criticized capitalism. Does that make him a Marxist ?  He is just another capitalist crookThe proponents of the so called liberation theology can not be called as Marxists either, including Camilo Torres who became a guerrilla father, and the pope does not support them.There is a Salesian priest who participated in workers strikes,and street demostrations, and the Vatican asked  the government to deport him to another country Sometimes peoples like to talk shits without checking history or checking the appropriate principles.The new Pope is not a Marxist, he is not a Socialist-communist either , he is just the representative of a reactionary institution called the Catholic Church, he is just the new CEO wearing different mask.Pio XII, and Paul I  had more advanced conceptions than him and they were not  Marxists either, According to David Yallop in one of his books he indicated that they killed Paul I to be replaced by the anti-communists Paull II

I did have my tongue placed very firmly in my cheek!i

[Anonymous]

In Bolivia the peasants have canonized Ernesto Che Guevara, and they call him: Saint Ernesto Che Guevara, and they light candles, and they pray to him.  If the pope is a so called Marxist why he  does not canonize him ? Why he does not canonize father Camilo Torres who called himself a Marxist too  ? The bishops in Colombia wanted him dead too The president of Haiti known as Aristides was a catholic priest, and the Vatican collaborated to overthrow him, and he was part of the so called Liberation Theology.The real reason is that Aristides wanted Vodoo to become the official religion of the state and the official religion of the country, and during the times of Papa doc they have a signed "Concordato"  with the state which produced a lot of income for the Vatican.Livorio was another person canonized by the peasants and he represented an old African religion, and the Vatican participated in the killings of all the priest of this peagant cult. Livorio also opposed the US invasion of 1916 toward the Island of Hayti, ( original name of the islad instead of Haiti ) also known as Quisqueya PS The grandson of Ernesto Che Guevara is an anarchist and he has said that his grandfather was just a supporter of state capitalism, and the dictatorship of a single party rule. He has never said that he was a socialist or communist

[ALB]

mcolome1 wrote:

PS The grandson of Ernesto Che Guevara is an anarchist and he has said that his grandfather was just a supporter of state capitalism, and the dictatorship of a single party rule. He has never said that he was a socialist or communist

I didn't know that. Where can I find more?

[Anonymous]

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/frank-fernandez-cuban-anarchism-the-history-of-a-movement

ALB wrote:

mcolome1 wrote:

PS The grandson of Ernesto Che Guevara is an anarchist and he has said that his grandfather was just a supporter of state capitalism, and the dictatorship of a single party rule. He has never said that he was a socialist or communist

I didn't know that. Where can I find more?

 https://kasandrxs.radioteca.net/article/inicio-un-nuevo-viaje-el-anarquista-canek-sanchez-/http://www.diariodecuba.com/cuba/1421843452_12436.htmlThis is only a summary of an interview that he had in Mexico where he died, He had a discussion forum  that I was a member and he raised very serious critiques against the so called Cuban soialist society, and his grand father. He wrote several articles in an anarchist paper called Progreso. I will try to find an article in the English language . In Cuba the Anarchists had more influence within the peasant population than the Leninists and the Stalinistshttps://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/frank-fernandez-cuban-anarchism-the-history-of-a-movement

[ALB]

Thanks but something from him even in Spanish about Cuba being state capitalist and why will do as well.

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

Thanks but something from him even in Spanish about Cuba being state capitalist and why will do as well.

DIGITAL TRANSLATION MIGHT CONTAINS ERRORSHe began a new journey Canek Sanchez Guevara anarchist  By: Federation of Anarchists in LanzaroteDied on January 21 Canek Sanchez Guevara anarchist at 40 years of age in Mexico City, grandson of guerrilla Ernesto Che Guevara with Peruvian Hilda Gadea, he was born in Havana in 1974.Cuban opposition to Castroism which he considered state capitalism with phrases like "revolutions do not happen by some vanguardista decree (…) are not made, they participate in them." And contrary to the figure of his grandfather prostituted, "" Che is a pop icon and as such is disseminated and consumed, but simplification did not begin with marketing your figure, but with its revolutionary canonization ". Canek Sanchez GuevaraCanek Sanchez Guevara"I became interested in avant-garde art, cultural, aesthetic, and also, of course, for ideological and political. I sank into the isms, I must admit. I began to devote myself to graphic design, while doing photography, composed music and wrote poems terrible 'abstract'. I did good reader and gradually, editor, "he wrote about himself in a blog involving several Cuban authors.In 1996 he left Cuba to return to Mexico and reside in the city of Oaxaca. He was critical of the Cuban revolution that said "was undemocratic communist nor is now, but a vulgar State capitalism also called 'fidelismo'"Let the earth be mild companion!  

[Anonymous]

mcolome1 wrote:

ALB wrote:

Thanks but something from him even in Spanish about Cuba being state capitalist and why will do as well.

DIGITAL TRANSLATION MIGHT CONTAINS ERRORSHe began a new journey Canek Sanchez Guevara anarchist  By: Federation of Anarchists in LanzaroteDied on January 21 Canek Sanchez Guevara anarchist at 40 years of age in Mexico City, grandson of guerrilla Ernesto Che Guevara with Peruvian Hilda Gadea, he was born in Havana in 1974.Cuban opposition to Castroism which he considered state capitalism with phrases like "revolutions do not happen by some vanguardista decree (…) are not made, they participate in them." And contrary to the figure of his grandfather prostituted, "" Che is a pop icon and as such is disseminated and consumed, but simplification did not begin with marketing your figure, but with its revolutionary canonization ". Canek Sanchez GuevaraCanek Sanchez Guevara"I became interested in avant-garde art, cultural, aesthetic, and also, of course, for ideological and political. I sank into the isms, I must admit. I began to devote myself to graphic design, while doing photography, composed music and wrote poems terrible 'abstract'. I did good reader and gradually, editor, "he wrote about himself in a blog involving several Cuban authors.In 1996 he left Cuba to return to Mexico and reside in the city of Oaxaca. He was critical of the Cuban revolution that said "was undemocratic communist nor is now, but a vulgar State capitalism also called 'fidelismo'"Let the earth be mild companion! / quote OBITUARYDie in Mexico Canek Sanchez Guevara, grandson of Che and critic of the regimeDDC | Madrid | January 21, 2015 – 14:30 CET. | 27Filed enCanek Sanchez Guevara Ernesto Guevara Cuba Mexico Obituary PolicyFacebook logo Twitter logo Google+ logo LinkedIn logo Canek Sanchez Guevara. (ESTEL NEGRE) Canek Sanchez Guevara, grandson of Ernesto Che Guevara and critic of the Cuban regime, died in Mexico City for 40 years, confirmed his uncle, Martin Guevara, in a post published on his blog. "Today (Monday) in a complicated operation remained Canek," said Martin Guevara. "Great writer, great honest, brave, intelligent," he added. "Afflicted for all obsequious Fidel y Cia., Turned away from the most abject manner, be brave from young, punk, rebel (…) denounced without hesitation the wanderings of all less revolutionary than those who left his grandfather ". According to the blog Café Fuerte, Canek Sanchez (Havana, 1974), writer, designer and promoter culture, he died during heart surgery. His health had worsened in recent days after you detect an infection in the heart, causing pneumonia and kidney failure which forced him to be hospitalized, said the publication quoting Martin Guevara. The intervention, emergency, was to replace two valves. Canek Sanchez's mother was Hilda Guevara, who died in 1995 and eldest daughter of Che and Peruvian Hilda Gadea. His father is Mexican Alberto Sanchez Hernandez. "I saw him not see since I was a child but I have read these years and we were contacted by networks similarity and affinity in thought, views and tastes and family affection, he had become a man in constant search a great intellectual honesty, "said Martin Guevara, also critical of the Cuban regime. Canek Sanchez left Cuba in 1996 and settled in Mexico. He wrote for magazines such as Letras Libres and Milenio Semanal. 'I left Cuba with heart made shit' "I did in Cuba: I loved and hated as only you can love and hate something valuable, something that is fundamental part of one," he said in a text published in 2006, which recounted the years spent on the island and its departure to Mexico. "I went out with heart made shit," he said. "The revolution died years ago (…) had to be killed by those who invoked to prevent turning against them, had to be institutionalized and smothered by its own bureaucracy, by corruption, by nepotism and by the verticality of the so mented organization: the 'revolutionary' Cuban 'state, he wrote in testimony published by the weekly Proceso in October 2004. "The revolution gave birth to a bourgeoisie willing to defend the people repressive apparatus and a bureaucracy that away from it. But above all it was undemocratic by the religious messianism of its leader," he said in that text, he picked up by news agencies. It became a "vulgar State capitalism also called 'fidelismo'" he said. He harshly criticized the "messianism" of Fidel Castro and the loss of direction which led to the revolution, from "the revolutionary young to old tyrant" who "falsified" an ideal. He said one of the points that took him away from the island was "the criminalization of difference" by "persecution of homosexuals, hippies, freethinkers, trade unionists and poets" and the installation of a "socialist bourgeoisie (…) fingidamente proletarian ". He described the Castro regime as a dictatorship. "In effect, Fidel liberated Cuba from Batista dictatorship gangster, but with his obstinate permanence only managed to turn himself dictator," he said. "All my criticism of Fidel Castro are based on their distance from the libertarian ideals, betrayal committed against the people of Cuba and the fearful surveillance established to preserve the state over its people," he added. "Let's be honest, a young rebel like Fidel Castro was in Cuba today would be immediately executed, not condemned to exile," castigated.

[ALB]

Thanks for the translation. Just what I was looking for. Is there a Lanzarote in Mexico as well as in the Canary Islands off Africa?

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

Thanks for the translation. Just what I was looking for. Is there a Lanzarote in Mexico as well as in the Canary Islands off Africa?

Yes, it's in the municipality of Tepotzotlán in the state City of Mexico.http://www.lanzaroteinformation.com/content/lanzarote-so-good-they-named-it-twice

[Dave B]

Well I have said before that Christianity was originally communist. And I will go even further now and say it was Marxist with a class analysis as with John Chrysostom. Who was no minor Christian bod.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom  first translation with (…Marxist inserts..)   John Chrysostom on The Rich and The Poor”From Homily XXXIV on I Corinthians 13: 8  And that thou mayest see it more clearly, let us suppose, if it seem good, two cities, (…classes….) the one of rich only, but the other of poor;  and neither in that (…city/ruling class..) of the rich  let there be any poor man,  nor in that of the poor (…city/working class..) any rich; (…that is simple enough?…)  but let us purge out both thoroughly (..and do an economic analysis..),  and see which will be the more able to support itself. For if we find that of the poor able (..working class..), it is evident that the rich will more stand in need of them. ( …the ruling class depend on the working class to make stuff for them…) Now then, in that city of the affluent (…ruling class..) there will be no manufacturer, no builder, no carpenter, no shoe-maker, no baker, no husbandman , no brazier, no rope-maker, nor any other such trade.(…yeah, yeah we got it the ruling class don’t make stuff…)  For who among the rich would ever choose to follow these crafts, ( …or work for a living..)seeing that the very men who take them in hand, when they become rich, endure no longer the discomfort caused by these works? (.. this is just a very reasonable simple commodity producing analysis for the time re the petty bourgeois becoming capitalists etc….)  How then shall this our city stand? “The rich,” it is replied, “giving money, will buy these things of the poor.”(…the ruling capitalist class will buy what they need for their own consumption from the working class..) Well then, they will not be sufficient for themselves, their needing the others proves that. But how will they build houses? Will they purchase this too? But the nature of things cannot admit this. Therefore they must needs invite the artificers thither, and destroy the law, which we made at first when we were founding the city. (….And Chrysostom’s own two classes/cities analogy, he confesses, breaks down as the two classes or cities have to necessarily coexist together; good!….) For you remember, that we said, “let there be no poor man within it.”But, lo, necessity, even against our will, hath invited and brought them in. Whence it is evident that it is impossible without poor for a city ( …ruling class…) to subsist: since if the city were to continue refusing to admit any of these, it will be no longer a city but will perish. Plainly then it will not support itself, unless it shall collect the poor as a kind of preservers, to be within itself.(..the capitalist class cannot survive without the exploited working class..) But let us look also upon the city of the poor, whether this too will be in a like needy condition, on being deprived of the rich.( …a social system without the capitalist ruling class??????????…..)  And first let us in our discourse thoroughly clear the nature of riches, and point them out plainly. What then may riches be? Gold, and silver (..money..), and precious stones, and garments silken, purple, and embroidered with gold. (…capitalist bling…)  Now then that we have seen what riches are, let us drive them away from our city of the poor (…working class..):     and if we are to make it purely a city (..social system..) of poor persons (..working class…),  (and) let not any gold (..money, blah blah..) appear there, no not in a dream, nor garments of such quality; and if you will, neither silver, nor vessels of silver. What then? (…..then this bit is really interesting, I think, what happens in a working class proletarian society without money and capitalist bling…)   Because of this will that (..working class.. ) city and its concerns live in want, tell me? Not at all. For suppose first there should be need to build; one does not want gold and silver (….money?…. )  and pearls, but skill, and hands, and hands not of any kind, but such as are become callous, and fingers hardened, and great strength,(..working class.. )  and wood, and stones: suppose again one would weave a garment, neither here have we need of gold and silver (…money..) , but, as before, of hands and skill, and women to work. (…hat tip at last to the girls…) And what if one require husbandry, and digging the ground? Is it rich men(..capitalist class..) who are wanted, or poor(..working class, including women.. )  It is evident to every one, poor (..working class men and women…. ) And when iron too is to be wrought, or any such thing to be done, this (..working class.. ) is the race of men whereof we most stand in need. What respect then remains wherein we may stand in need of the rich? except the thing required be, to pull down this city.(…revolution, get rid of the capitalist class and their bling?…)  For should that sort of people make an entrance, and these philosophers, for (for I call them philosophers, who seek after nothing superfluous,) should fall to desiring gold and jewels, giving themselves up to idleness and luxury; they will ruin everything from that day forward.   Other ‘standard’ translation; http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/220134.htm   I think that was pretty damn good for circa AD 380 if nothing else, Throw the baby out with the bath water if you must.  

[Author]

Posts