Interesting discussion
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Banished
Since 1945?, if you read your history books, I think you will find, we were pretty tolerant even before that!
stevecolborn
Funny thing, on Sun 5th Cammy said without a trace of a smirk, if the top rate of tax was dropped to 40%, then the exchequer would take "more" tax! Well, one can tell common sense was not a prerequisite where Cammy boy went to school!
Does this gibbering idiot not realise that the wealthy will try to avoid paying tax, whether 40%, 45% or 50%. Give your brain a rest marra and the rest of us a rest from your preposterous utterances.bohemianblogger
UKIP supporter? I could write a letter physically dissecting every flaw in this argument, I have done this in the past but Labour Gazette stopped printing my letters (surprised?) as truth does tend to hurt those in Town hall.
So just leave it to @Banished to dig some facts and post them here if they have time and inclination.
Just for the record I am not any 'ism', I adhere to no political ideology, I always try to praise anyone that tells it straight and correct those that are playing the rhetoric game to score some political ideological points! I can't be bothered with ideologies, I prefer dealing with facts and love it or loathe it Cameron is digging us out of recession. You want Socialism, take a look at France when Hollande took over, the economy nose dived!
stevecolborn
I detest these sites when people throw around words like Socialism, willy nilly, without having the first idea of what this term actually means. To call Hollande a Socialist, or his regime Socialist, is like calling Uncle Joe Stalin, a philanthropist! What Hollande et al have in common, is support for Capitalism. You know, minority ownership and control of the means of life. Rich and poor, Capitalists and workers, a monetary system and production for profit!
Just because someone calls themselves a Socialist, is not proof conclusive of anything.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. It would appear to apply to many who inhabit forums such as this!Heinrich Scrotwengler von Grossteschattenburg9:12 PM on 07/01/2014 If Hitler lost WW2 how come Bentley Motors belongs to Volkswagen, Rolls Royce Motors along with Mini,belongs to BMW and horror of horrors Rolls Royce Aero engines R&D is now in Germany?Soon, with 3D printing the whole shebang will be in Germany.Who spreads these crazy rumours about Hitler? The evidence seems to stack up against such silly rumours.As for socialism, marxism, capitalism, jingoism, (Hope the jingos are not offended) et al they are all euphemisms for idiocy or lunacy or something similar. Utopia is just up the road, around the bend. Just around the bend. As for demented McDuff, In vino veritas, Britain is in no danger from an accelerating tsunami of degenerates and other lowlife from the entire globe.We all stand to be enriched to death on the new High Speed Care Path, expertly delivered by the International Health Service. stevecolborn10:14 PM on 07/01/2014 "As for socialism, marxism, capitalism, jingoism", what do you know about any of these? Stop throwing around terminology you know, or appear to know, nothing about! If you do know, please explain them, if that's not to much trouble?
Quote:Heinrich Scrotwengler von GrossteschattenburgThis guy can't be real. Even his pseudonym doesn't conform to German spelling conventions. Sounds like the name of a Troll. Don't they come from near that part of the world?I agree of course that since's he's mentioned socialism, marxism, etc this gives us an opening to give our views on these.
One for John Bissett. Oswin8:30 PM on 07/01/2014 stevecolborn, personally I'm not a socialist, but its true what you say, in fact I think its fair to say Socialism has never really existed,anywhere? according to the uk labour party its whatever they say it is which would equal rampant capitalism, if people fall for that then the average age of intelligence must be about 14, incidentally,we have'nt had a bulletin to the Gazette from John Bisset of Hebburn in a while, wonder if he's still active, one of the most erudite writer of letters to this paper if ever there was, despite it being against my patriotic instincts I usually found myself agreeing with about 95% of his content .
A bit of a plug : ) stevecolborn3:37 PM on 08/01/2014 As there are so many on this site who appear to be totally confused with regard to Socialism and the issues surrounding the same, perhaps this may be of interest in filling in the gaps;http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/archive
It appears that John had quite an impact! ringthembells6:02 PM on 08/01/2014 @Oswin, agree with you on John Bisset, a very cerebral man.
I texted John to let him know about this and he says he'll resume letter-writing when his present problems are over. This confirms the impact of letters to the press in the North East. For instance:http://www.sunderlandecho.com/opinion/columnists/tuesday-january-9-2007-1-1128859http://www.shieldsgazette.com/opinion/your-letters/what-s-the-difference-1-1255064http://www.shieldsgazette.com/opinion/your-letters/rottenness-of-capitalism-1-1298259
Thanks for that Adam. All the effort of various comrades in the NE is, it appears, continuing to pay off!
JD Mac 25:48 PM on 08/01/2014Like "we have never had it so good", "there is no such thing as society", "back to basics", "big society", another empty,meaningless phrase. With the income of the average working family falling, wages and salaries virtually frozen "res ipsa loquitur". Meanwhile, in that nirvana land of £90 haircuts, what is an ism or three amongst the flashing scissors…
Banished3:26 PM on 09/01/2014 @stevecolborn. Your take on the Capitalist System appears to be "What there is proof of, is that for 2 thirds of the population of the earth, some 4 billion plus people, this Shiite system you support, does "not work".40,000 kids a day, dying of starvation or directly attributable diseases. Over 2 billion people without access to clean water or sanitation. The same, or more, existing, not living by the way, but existing, on 2 dollars a day or less!"On your proposed system you say " As for some "proof" that the "theoretical system" I, and many others propose would work! As this system has never been implemented anywhere on the planet, how could there be "proof"? "I do not "love" the Capitalist system, it was in existence when I was born. I do not like the fact that some people have no clean water, no food etc. I also have no idea if your number s are accurate, but, does it matter? If only half as many people as you say are in that predicament, it is still lamentable.True, you proposed system may solve the problems of the world, but, given that you yourself admit your system is untried and thus unproven, do you not concede that POSSIBLY, it would produce WORSE results than the present system? stevecolborn4:32 PM on 09/01/2014 How could things possibly be worse than 2 billion with no access to sanitation or clean water. Or billions existing on $2 dollars or less a day. In a world where the world and everything in an on it, belongs to a tiny infinitesimal fraction of the worlds population, who live lives of unalloyed luxury, whilst the rest of us live in varying degrees of want, poverty, stress and insecurity?In the society I am working for, the world and it's resources will belong to us all in common. Production will be for direct human use and not for profit for the tiny minority.Regardless of claims to the contrary, this society does not work in the interest of the vast majority and the profit system is a fetter to the fulfilment of the needs of the vast, vast, majority.No profit, no production. Cannot pay, then cannot have. Even if that means one starves to death, or dies of easily treatable diseases.One final point, Capitalism was at one time, itself untried but now, it is without a doubt, a millstone round the necks of mankind. All the evidence, with attributable sources, can be found here;http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/archive.Be well : )
stevecolborn10:58 PM on 09/01/2014Banished8:22 PM on 09/01/2014@steveColborn, do you accept, In this utopia you speak of food will not produce, and distribute itself?,if the answer is No, ie it will produce and distribute itself, would you care to explain how?if the answer is Yes, how do you propose to motivate people to do the necessary work?Well, as I said, unless a majority want, understand and bring this new society about, it will not happen. When a majority do, agree to this change, the understanding will be there that cooperation will be necessary to produce cooperatively, the things we, as human beings need to live. As opposed to Capitalism, where we, as a class are rationed by the money and wages system, this will not be the case in a new society, say call it Socialism or whatever. The understanding will be there, and the knowledge that if, we do not cooperate, this new society will fail and we will be plunged back into the artificial scarcity that Capitalism most assuredly is.I've explained how food, as with everything else we need to live, will be produced and the motivation for the same. Understand and believe, it is your choice!You use the word "Utopia"! I think it is Utopian to expect Capitalism to work other than it can, in the interests of a tiny minority of mankind.Your choice. The site address I gave you has all of the answers you require, or you could use this site, http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum to ask other Socialists your questions. From your recent posts I can see that you have not availed yourself of the facility of the site I originally gave you. Fair dibs, that's your choice. You have the sites, "look", or not. I have done all I can. Be well, I've given you the resources, use them.
Though not necessarily necessary, it would have been nice to see at least one other member, posting on this site, to push our argument and back up the posts already made. Given the proof of the impact NE members have made with this paper, (one in particular,) assistance would have been appreciated.One voice is seen as crazy, two as eccentric, three or more! one has a movement.
Support would best come from someone living in the area rather than parachuting someone in from London or Manchester and we've got a number of people on this forum from the NE.Talking about interesting discussions I just came across when looking for something else this one on the TED site about a moneyless society started by the Zeitgeist people a couple of years ago:http://www.ted.com/conversations/1890/do_we_need_money_at_all_ca.htmlThis confirms that online discussions can be a useful way of putting across our ideas.
Hi Adam,When signing up to participate on this site, one needs an email address and username, ones own name or an alias. Nobody looking at the site knows where a respondent is from. As to parachuting someone in, I do not really see how that is applicable.Whilst I am here and before I forget "again" may I wish all members and sympathisers the best of luck in their propoganda efforts this coming year. Also good health and luck to you all.Most especially Socialist Punk and John Bisset. Stevie C.
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