I’d like a moneyless system, but see a couple flaws that need fixing

[Anonymous]

ladybug wrote:

Gnome, thanks for the support!  (why are your smiley faces here soooo cute? That alone makes this forum better than all the others. ) 

The reason our smiley faces here are soooo cute is that most of us in the SPGB are too.    Of course there’s always the condescending individual or the pretentious, pseudo-intellectual exception who has their head firmly planted up their dialectical arse.  But I suppose one finds that sort of person in almost any organisation so one just has to make allowances and attempt to keep them from coming into contact with those workers genuinely interested in finding out about socialism. :)And on that note. ladybug, may I say that I’m personally beginning to warm to you. Seriously though, you (and others) should urgently consider the only real alternative to the madhouse of capitalism.  The more workers who assist in the process of bringing about the necessary change the better.  As time passes the consequences of allowing the present system to continue will become increasingly too horrific to contemplate.http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/membership-application

[ladybug]

Sorry to reply over a month later!! I’ve been distracted by various responsibiliities in my life and this discussion slipped to the back of my mind. Thanks Robin, DJP, and Gnome for responding! Once again Robin you have provided a thoughtful and helpful response. A moneyless system finally seems plausible to me. What changed it for me was learning that it is the workers “on the ground” who make the decisions regarding how to allocate resources when they’re scarce, which orders to fill and which to delay or fill only partly, etc. I had been assuming such decisions would be made by the entire community (neighborhood, or municipality, or region, etc.) and this just seemed to unwieldly, too many meetings for us all to sit through to make all these production decisions that would come up day to day. But if these decisions are scattered across various workplaces, then it becomes manageable. DJP, I agree with you that we should be eroding the boundaries between workplace and community. That’s why I made the assumption (noted above) that the community would be involved in these decisions of how to allocate scarce resources. But I don’t think this would be possible because it would be too many meetings. So although no seperation between workplace and community is the ideal, I don’t think it can be met totally in every case, and some boundary will need to remain. But there definitely needs to be more community input/control in workplaces, such as for environmental standards, product health and safety, etc. Gnome, you crack me up! I’m glad you’re warming to me and it’s likewise. The SPGB must use you and your charming ways to recruit new members. But I don’t live in Britain so wouldn’t make much sense for me to join. Plus I’m not convinced about SPGB’s electoral strategy. I don’t entirely dismiss it either, as I think it might be possible, but I put more faith in revolution.  

[DJP]

Please bear in mind that anything we say about how a future society is speculation only, ultimately it will be up to the people at the time to decide how to organise things, not us in the socialist pre-history.

ladybug wrote:

 … I made the assumption (noted above) that the community would be involved in these decisions of how to allocate scarce resources. But I don’t think this would be possible because it would be too many meetings. So although no seperation between workplace and community is the ideal, I don’t think it can be met totally in every case, and some boundary will need to remain. But there definitely needs to be more community input/control in workplaces, such as for environmental standards, product health and safety, etc.

The thing is it is entirely possible to co-ordinate production without any meetings at all. In fact meetings are a very ineficiant way of organising things. In the age of electronic communications it only takes a few seconds to communicate ‘hey guys we are getting low on copper’ across the whole world. Productive units will be in constant comminication with each other and so can adjust production schedules as requirements change. 

ladybug wrote:

Plus I’m not convinced about SPGB’s electoral strategy. I don’t entirely dismiss it either, as I think it might be possible, but I put more faith in revolution.  

Perhaps then this is another area where we can change your thinking. What is a revolution? A total change in the material basis of society. This is what the socialist party seeks to bring about.Now what is socialism? A society in which the producers co-operativly and freely co-ordinate their labour for the good of all.Now can you have a socialist society before the majority want it and are willing to put it into practice? Can you force people to co-operate? I would seem to me that the answer is no.Therefore it is impossible to have a socilaist revolution until the majority support it.So with this in mind and considering “That as the machinery of government, including the armed forces of the nation, exists only to conserve the monopoly by the capitalist class” can you come up with a practical reason as to why a socialist majority should not use the democratic process to neutralise any possible counterattack from a pro-capitalist minority?

[Anonymous]

ladybug wrote:

Gnome, you crack me up! I’m glad you’re warming to me and it’s likewise. The SPGB must use you and your charming ways to recruit new members. But I don’t live in Britain so wouldn’t make much sense for me to join. Plus I’m not convinced about SPGB’s electoral strategy. I don’t entirely dismiss it either, as I think it might be possible, but I put more faith in revolution.  

Not everyone would agree with you there………….some folk even think I’m quite ‘abrasive’ !  Hard to believe, I know.  Says much more about them than it does about me I would say.But anyone, anywhere, can join the SPGB if they agree with its Object and Declaration of Principles providing they don’t live somewhere that already has a companion party.http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/membership-applicationAnd as for our electoral strategy…………….http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlets/whats-wrong-using-parliament**************************************************************************************************ps. Do you have a profile picture by any chance?    And where do you live?

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