ICC day of discussion on the Russian revolution, London, 11 November

[Alf]

International Communist Current

Day of discussion on the Russian Revolution

Saturday 11 November 2017, May Day Rooms, 88 Fleet Street, London EC4Y 1DH, 11am to 6pm

 

One hundred years after the October insurrection in Russia, we will be holding a day of discussion about the relevance of the Russian revolution for the class struggle today. We will look at its historic importance as a first step towards the world revolution against capitalism, at its huge political and organizational achievements, as well as the tragic process of its degeneration and defeat.

Presentations will be given both by the ICC and the comrades of the Communist Workers Organisation. We also hope that the debate will include other groups and individuals who are trying to understand history – and what the future holds in store for us – from the standpoint of the working class.

 

 

Email: uk@internationalism.org

Website: en.internationalism.org

[Anonymous]

Probably, the last European  bourgeoise revolution against  Feudalism. The only achievement of the Bolshevik coup was to distort socialism, to create many anti-communist workers, and to retard socialism for more than 70 years. Without the Soviet coup socialism would have been today  in a much better stand

[Alf]

of course comrades of the SPGB are warmly invited to come and express their views on the revolution…  We can give some details about the proposed format for the meeting: 11am-11.30: introduction to the day of discussion by the ICC11.30am – 2.30pm: presentation by the Communist Workers Organisation on the proletarian nature of the Bolshevik party and the October insurrection followed by discussion, with a 1 hour lunch break in between2.30-5.30: ICC presentation on the degeneration of the revolution, followed by discussion5.30: conclusions

[alanjjohnstone]

Perhaps some enterprising SPGBer will bring along a few copies of our latest book on the Russian Revolution to sell 

[ALB]

I went to this. It was interesting and (unlike some ICC meetings in the past) good-humoured. About 30 people there, mainly ICC and CWO members. They defended the "proletarian character" of events in Russia in 1917 as the overthrow of, first, the Tsar and, then, the Provisional Government as the work of workers organised in "soviets" with the Bolshevik Party merely as an instrument in their hands.Of course they realised that things went wrong, especially when the expected world revolution failed to materialise, and expressed the view that it had ended in the worst possible way — the evolution of Bolshevik rule into a brutal state-capitalist dictatorship claiming to be "socialist", so besmirching and discrediting the whole idea (which is indeed how it ended and the effect this had). They didn't spell out what a "better" failure would have been, presumably either the Bolsheviks handing over power to some other political group (never on the cards) or the overthrow of the Bolshevik government by reactionary elements followed by a massacre as after the Paris Commune in 1871 (but could they really be wishing for that?).Sold some copies of our Martov pamphlet. I re-read it after the meeting and it really is hard-hitting in its criticism of the soviets as a magic formula, quoting Bolsheviks as saying that they were only useful if controlled by them. Martov also denounces the aim of "decomposing" the State into a federation of local soviets (once for a while, believe it or not, endorsed by the Bolsheviks even if this was only a ploy to win support) , as opposed to capturing, democratising and using it, as an anarchist rather than a Marxist position. Which might explain why the CWO are allowed to have a stall inside the Anarchist Bookfair..

[alanjjohnstone]

Were you able to make a contribution from the floor…an if you did, what was the response?

[ALB]

Of course I did. I challenged the view expressed by the CWO speaker that the overthrow of the Tsar in March had been a proletarian revolution but that it had been a bourgeois revolution. I agreed that the bourgeoisie proved unable to hold on to power and that in the chaos the Bolsheviks, as a determined well-organised group, were able to seize power in a well-planned coup and bring about some sort of order, but that in the end all they could do was develop capitalism in one form or another as anyone familiar with Marx could have predicted.Their reply was that the Bolsheviks were internationalists and had only seized power because they expected to soon be relieved by the world revolution that they had started spreading especially to Germany and that when this failed they were doomed. I didn't come back and point out that Lenin was deluding himself in thinking that a world socialist revolution was imminent and that he mistook deep discontent amongst large sections of the working class in the defeated countries (Germany and the remnants of the Austro-Hungarian Empire) about living conditions as a sign of this.The ICC said that, because the SPGB had opposed WWI and initially had not been as hostile to the new regime as we later became, we were still part of the "proletarian milieu".

[Bijou Drains]

ALB wrote:

The ICC said that, because the SPGB had opposed WWI and initially had not been as hostile to the new regime as we later became, we were still part of the "proletarian milieu".

Thank god for that, I was so worried I was not a part of the "Proetarian Milieu", at last I can get some sleep at night!!Thank you ICC, you're my heroes

[Young Master Smeet]

I thought we were relegated to the swamp in the 1990's?

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

Of course I did. I challenged the view expressed by the CWO speaker that the overthrow of the Tsar in March had been a proletarian revolution but that it had been a bourgeois revolution. I agreed that the bourgeoisie proved unable to hold on to power and that in the chaos the Bolsheviks, as a determined well-organised group, were able to seize power in a well-planned coup and bring about some sort of order, but that in the end all they could do was develop capitalism in one form or another as anyone familiar with Marx could have predicted.Their reply was that the Bolsheviks were internationalists and had only seized power because they expected to soon be relieved by the world revolution that they had started spreading especially to Germany and that when this failed they were doomed. I didn't come back and point out that Lenin was deluding himself in thinking that a world socialist revolution was imminent and that he mistook deep discontent amongst large sections of the working class in the defeated countries (Germany and the remnants of the Austro-Hungarian Empire) about living conditions as a sign of this.The ICC said that, because the SPGB had opposed WWI and initially had not been as hostile to the new regime as we later became, we were still part of the "proletarian milieu".

That is a very old excuse.. The Bolsheviks knew that it was impossible to establish a socialist society in Russia, and when they got isolated they created the theory of socialism in one country, and it was  not created by Stalin, it was created by Bukharin, and it was supported by Lenin. Communists are not internationalists, we must be worldly, because internationalists means between nations, and we are against the concept of nation-state. We did not support WWII and Leninist supported the so called patriotic war which was a nationalist stand. They are all mistaken and they have distorted socialism completely. Without the Soviet Union socialism would have been in a much better 

[Anonymous]

The ICC has created the concept of the Left of  capital like indicating that one sector of the left is socialist,  and one sector of the left is capialist. That concept is totally wrong but left and right are wings of capitalism, and both are irrelevant concepts. Leftism has nothing to do with socialsim. Both sectors ( right or left ) are reformist and reactionary. The expression left has been totally distorted in our time, it is simliar to the concept of liberal or liberalism. Most peoples do not know that all those are not relevants. 

[Bijou Drains]

Young Master Smeet wrote:

I thought we were relegated to the swamp in the 1990's?

I get a bit twitchy when people use the word relegation

[alanjjohnstone]

This is their own report of the meeting which includes the presentations of the speakershttp://en.internationalism.org/icconline/201712/14536/icc-day-discussion-russian-revolutionIt also states the responses to questions raise by the SPGB at the meetingWas October a soviet revolution or a coup by the Bolsheviks?This was posed by a comrade from the SPGB which defends the latter position. The February Revolution – bourgeois or proletarian?Were the workers simply used as a battering ram to get rid of the Czar and put the bourgeoisie in power? This was the view of the comrade from the SPGB.I note that we are referred to as comrades

[ALB]

Thanks, Alam. There are a couple of other referencse to the SPGB "intervention":

Quote:

For the SPGB, the degeneration of the RR proved Marx correct: the workers could not establish communism in a backward country. Lenin’s last articles were full of disillusionment – he realised he’d made a big mistake.

Quote:

The Russian Revolution failed. True, the working class, through its soviets, through its party, smashed the bourgeois state and established, for a short time, a dictatorship of the proletariat (only the Socialist Party of GB regarded this as a bourgeois revolution and a Bolshevik coup).

Re the March revolution which overthrew the Tsar, the Socialist Standard of 1919-21 saw this as a failed bourgeois revolution in that, although the Tsar was overthrown, the Russian capitalists were unable to establish their stable rule and were overthrown by a determined minority that was able to stabilise the situation. Not that it could establish socialism. In fact, it could only restore the economy and get production going again on a capitalist basis, as, once the civil war was over, Lenin came to recognise (and which earned him a relatively favourable obituary in the Socialist Standard).

[Anonymous]

The ICC should read and study  our pamphlet on the Russian revolution. I know one ex member of the ICC who read some of our publications and became a member of the WSM

[Author]

Posts