Hong Kong
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The Harvard findings where I assume you received your statistic on approval of China’s central government also found that approval of local government was only 11%.
A discrepancy I would appreciate your opinion upon.
What does it signify?
According to Harvard’s article, those authorities who actually responsible for delivering dependable and effective social services aren’t trusted to do so.
Perhaps you can explain why.
Our own Party is well aware that electoral support for all the pro-capitalist political parties collectively expressed by their votes is in the region of 99% but from your previous posts, you would disagree since all the various socialist, social democratic and communist parties cannot be defined as pro-capitalist despite their policies and practice.
AJJ, link doesn’t work? Oops forget this
I posted this elsewhere…so more apt here
George Galloway posted this..
“The same people who are against people coming here from Afghanistan, are the same people who supported people from Hong Kong coming here”
“But please indulge my curiosity, True Scotsman, and answer which parties and organisations that you approve of that I should view as my comrades and enlist in? Simple enough request, isn’t it, since you urge us to do so.”
How should I know? I live in bloody Japan! To be honest, I think your heart is in the right place. I used to be an anarchist. Then after exhaustive research I pieced together that everything I’d been told about Stalin/Mao the USSR and China were lies. They were and are the real deal. So I get it. But you’re not doing yourselves any favors. My advice, quit being the meme of the sectarian left and work with all socialists/communists and any other leftists in a coalition. Broaden your appeal, tone down the sectarianism and recruit more comrades because we all know this shit show can’t go on much longer.
Clearly what you’ve been doing isn’t working. People don’t like to be quoted at, they want to engage in discussions that give them hope and rouse them to action. Your constant condemnation of all and sundry wins no one but enemies. China has 90 million communists. Have you ever met one? Have you debated theory with them? Have you worked out areas of commonality? My bet is you haven’t. As long as you remain a holier than though leftist cult you’ll wither away as surely as Marx’s envisioned socialist state.
“As Eugene Debs said, if you let someone lead you into the promised land, you will permit another to so easily lead you out again” You do know he ran for President, right? You are funny.
What is your point?
He ran for president for the Socialist Party of America several times, once as a political prisoner.
He shares with our own party the principle that the political apparatus of the State must be captured, preferably if possible through a peaceful constitutional process.
He was making clear that he was doing so as the instrument of the will of the working class, not as a political leader.
The Internationale says it equally well
“No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear”So what you are saying to us is that you have no knowledge of any political party whatsoever that reflects your own personal political position, other than that the Chinese Communist Party meets with your approval.
You are telling us is that our new party policy should now be to advocate for political change by promoting the interests of China as an example of progress and not only endorse it but also emulate it.
We should also reject the hundreds and hundreds of analyses of Stalin in our archives, not written in hindsight but contemporary criticism.
And that this will broaden our appeal to ordinary fellow workers and lift us out of obscurity as a sectarian cult.
Am I getting you right?
If not you can correct me.
“your statistic on approval of China’s central government also found that approval of local government was only 11%.”
11% is those who were “very satisfied”. The study doesn’t mention how many were merely “satisfied”, “neutral”, etc. But if you’d bothered to read the study yourself you’ll find an explanation for those attitudes.
Yes, I have read the book that you have mentioned and I have read most of the works of Lenin ( Stalin, Hoxha and Mao too ) and only five of them are important and they are a complete distortion of Marx point of view, and the book that you have mentioned has nothing to do with the topic, it is against the German left communist, and Western European left communists, and it shows that he was completely intolerant,
We consider that leftism is only a reformist movement and we do not make alliance with leftists.
We have an article debunking that pamphlet and also Herman Gorter debunked it , as well Anton Pannekoek debunked his Materialism and Empirocriticism, proven that he was an apologist of bourgeois materialism, and we debunked his What is to be done and the State and the revolution,
Julius Martov cleaned the floor with his dishonest book known as the State and the revolution too, we have also debunked his Imperialism and his incorrect idea that colony produced more profits that the metropolis, he distorted Mark concept of surplus value and economic exploitation, it was the opposite way, workers of the metropolis produced more surplus value,
We have another article proving that he was an apologist of bourgeois nationalism, and Russia nationalism, therefore, several writers and one institution have debunked the most important works of Lenin and they have proven that they are incorrect and anti marxist
It is worth investigating further the relationship of the Chinese people with its government.
I should have also said Debs for most of his membership of the SPA never held any administrative position or official function in the Party. His role was mostly advisory.
But I am still curious that you are unable to direct me to any political party that you could actually recommend that you sympathise and support which makes me think they are as insignificant as we may be.
You have access to the internet and somehow in your cyber travels using your search engine you came across this website and you took the time to register with its forum to post your viewpoint.
What key-words did you enter in your search to bring you here? What were you looking for on the internet? What intrigued you enough that you chose to engage with us?
https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf
The full report does indeed demonstrate public approval of government at local as well as central levels.
The social services have been improved substantially to those who previously were deprived of access.
“by 2016 the Chinese government was more popular than at any point during the previous two decades. On average, Chinese citizens reported that the government’s provision of healthcare, welfare, and other essential public services was far better and more equitable than when the survey began in 2003. Also, in terms of corruption, the drop in satisfaction between 2009 and 2011 was completely erased, and the public appeared generally supportive of Xi Jinping’s widely-publicized anti-corruption campaign. Even on the issue of the environment, where many citizens expressed dissatisfaction, the majority of respondents expected conditions to improve over the next several years.”
The word of caution expressed is that this approval is entirely dependant upon economic success.
“Citizens who have grown accustomed to increases in living standards and service provision will expect such improvements to continue, and citizens who praise government officials for effective policies may blame them when policy failures affect
them or their family members directly.”This is crucial for anyone with an understanding of Marxist economics who can explain that economic crises are unavoidable features, regardless of whether free enterprise, mixed economy or centralized command economy.
Recessions are unpredictable but the root cause is the disproportionate over-expansion of certain industries, typically those that have grown rapidly during the boom phase of the trade cycle.
True Scotsman may claim China is immune, arguing it is a much more planned economy, but a Marxist would dispute it. The global market in which China is a key-player is subject to the anarchy of production.
There is no question that China is experiencing a prolonged boom, as did the USA post-WW2, but there are constant signs and signals within the economy of stress. The current one is about the debt burden of property giant, Evergrande. We cannot overlook the 2008 Recession was sparked by unsustainable debt and defaults in the property and banking sector of the USA and then its contagion into the wider economy and other countries.
We shall wait and see what happens when the balloon inevitably bursts.
But as an aside on surveys, can I mention the fact that Finland is constantly top of the happiness league while China is currently at No. 52
There is a study made by Raya Dunayeskaya on the Five Year Plans of the Soviet Union, and she indicates that despite the planning crisis was always present in the Soviet society due to the typical capitalist contradiction in the production process which is social production versus private expropriation, and overproduction.There is not any capitalist country which is immune to the periodic crisis of capitalism and China is not an exception and it is not so powerful as the Soviet Union. The USA had a larger accumulation of original capital after WW2 and its hegemony started to decline during the 60. Costa Rica is a small country in Central America and it is number 16 on the Happiness List
Costa Rica the happiest Latin American country, World Happiness Report says
So what you are saying to us is that you have no knowledge of any political party whatsoever that reflects your own personal political position, other than that the Chinese Communist Party meets with your approval.
Most hardcore Maoists do not support the government of China since the coup to the gang of four what they call the gang of five because it includes Mao Tse Tung. One of the largest Maoist group is RCPUSA
https://revcom.us/a/707/china-100th-anniversary-of-the-chinese-communist-party-en.html
“There are 90 million Socialists in China”
Another lie, one of many it seems.
No evidence to back this up and no context?
I could fill in the missing gaps, have stab in the dark?Membership to the SPGB is open to all who agree with our Object and Declaration Of Principles.
Membership details are available online here
No need to thank me
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This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by
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“There are 90 million Socialists in China”
Another lie, one of many it seems.
Some Maoists groups are saying that the congress of the CPC are congress of capitalists, it is like being a member of the USA Republican Party or the Democratic Party with a different name.
Most of the high level officials are capitalists and some have more accumulated more capital than many American capitalists, those are the cadres of the party
We do not know that capital means unpaid labor and it comes from the economic exploitation of the working class at point of production, and we know that money is capital, therefore, the class who should establish socialism is being exploited by their own class enemy.
Wonderful socialism !!! No wonder there is a new term called: Socialism for the rich
The Unified Socialist Party of Venezuela has more than eight millions members, and it is a nationalist party that only advocates for capitalist reforms, and they support the reactionary government of Iran, Siria, North Korea, Vietnam and Cuba, and the so called Arab nationalists, and they reject the real conception of socialism.
And we do not have any cadres, any leaders, and we are not under the dominion of a Central Committee. All decision are made in a democratic way by all the members of the party, we do not have any secretive meeting, everything is open to the public.
If by any chance we have a companion party in China, North Korea, and Cuba all the members are going to be locked down or taken to jail, the same case would have been in the Soviet Union.
In the past the Stalinists used to disrupt the meetings and literature tables of other organizations
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