Hong Kong
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I love it when people are condemned by their own defence: “The democratic aspects of the Constitution2 were inserted at Stalin’s insistence. Stalin and his closest supporters fought tenaciously to keep these provisions. He, and they, yielded only when confronted by their rejection by the Party’s Central Committee, and by the panic surrounding the discovery of serious conspiracies that collaborated with Japanese and German fascism to overthrow the Soviet government.”
“Senior Party leaders were usually veterans of the dangerous days of Tsarist times, the Revolution, the Civil War, and collectivization, when to be a communist was fraught with peril and difficulty. Many had little formal education. It appears that most of them were unwilling or unable to “remake themselves” through self-education.”
“Ezhov’s own confessions are evidence that Stalin and the central Soviet leadership were not responsible for his massive executions. Ezhov explicitly states many times that his repressions and executions were carried out in pursuit of his own private conspiratorial goals. In his confession of August 4, 1939 Ezhov admitted: “[W]e were deceiving the government in the most blatant manner.”11 There is no evidence that these confessions represent anything but what Ezhov chose to say—no evidence of torture, threats, or fabrication.”
So, Furr simply Mirror’s the Trotskyist line that it was dwn to bad men (Zinoviev, Yezhov, etc.) and their hero was bravely battling the bureaucracy.
This is all irrelevant, since it demonstrates that the system established in 1917 was weak and prone to conspiratorial collapse, and could only continue without democratic input. Furr is possibly one of the greatest anti-bolshevik writers anyone could read.
If we believe Furr, it was all those nasty Bolsheviks and not cuddly Mr. Stalin who was to blame.
Furr is not the only so called historian who has written defending the dictator Stalin and his crimes and the crimes of his collaborators, and he is not an innovator either, much of the so called evidences and new investigations that he claimed has been also published by others writers and defenders of Stalin,
Stalin himself on his collected works and Enver Hoxha presented their own cases, and the book of Hoxha titled: With Stalin is one of the best defense of Stalin crimes, and one of the best cult of personality because he was also a great admirer of Stalin and the Soviet Union, and Albania was a hard copy of Soviet state capitalism and I saw it with my own eyes
TS is just a repeater of other mouthpieces of Leninism but done in a very laconic way, he does not have any argument because he has not read anything, he was scratching pieces from one side to another side and putting them together like a small puzzle
As I have said before, I know these peoples like the palms of my hands, they can fools other peoples but they can not fool me, I am similar to Plekhanov who was a Populist and knew populism by heart, it is the same case of the Maoists who are also a bunch of fanatics like the Taliban defending the impossible, and reconciling the irreconciliable
The arguments published by the Socialist Party and World Socialist Movement are very solid evidences and very solid arguments because it did not take sides with interclass disputes and leadership disputes and it was a very objective investigation and as a lawyer in a court of law it would have won the case because in a criminal case evidence is a very important factor. The leftist (or left of capital like ICC ) can not make good analysis because they take sides with interclass dispute, that is the reason why the always fail in their analysis on Palestinian Israel conflict
The Moscow trial was a real Kangaroo court like the case of Sadam Hussein in Iraq orchestrated by the USA and his collaborators because he was one of his criminals and then they executed him, and most of those members of the Central Committee of the Russia Communist Party were old collaborators of Lenin and Trotsky when they were commissars and they were part of the killings perpetrated against the bolsheviks and the Anarchists when they protested.
Trotsky was the one who established the militarization of the line of production in the factories similar to Ford Assembly line, a system then implemented by Joseph Stalin, because he admired Ford, and when Trotsky was in charge of the Red Army ( erased by the Stalinists ) he was a despot, that is reason why Isaac Deutscher who was a Trotskyist said that he paved the way for Stalin ascend to power because he lost popularity among the Russian workers, as well,his assassin was an ex-trotsky who became a Stalinist and was exiled in Cuba, and it was easy for him to penetrate inside the residence which was guarded by Trotskyist followers, otherwise nobody would have been able to kill him
The Socialist Party has covered all these facts and historical passages and Furr and others did not mention many aspects of Lenin killings and oppression of the workers and the protests of the Workers against Lenin and his collaborators, he was a real provocateur like Julius Martov said and like any other dictator he used his collaborators to do the killing and Trotsky was one of his collaborator and admirer, even more the Socialist Party is the only organization who has analyzed properly the investigation made by Salazar in Mexico and it is known that the Mexican government sympathized with Stalin.
The real collaborator with the Nazis regime was Stalin and his embassadors who used the Russian territory to transport merchandise and raw material for the nazi war machinery and to feed their army, and they also export billions of dollars in raw material for the Nazi industrial production and they need badly those raw materials including petroleum, and iron and there are hundred of writing done by independent journalists and historians including Spanish journalists,
it is also true that he was planning to become a member of the Axis and then he changed gear to join the allied, he was like a pendulum oscillating from power block into another power block, to avoid been overthrown , similar to the dictator Rafael L Trujillo who collaborated with US and the Nazis, and some American corporation who sold petroleum in the Caribbean to the German submarines, he was playing all the bases like the baseball players. History is right there in front of ours eyes, he just must read it in an objective and independent way.
Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky were not different to any other capitalist politicians and they became famous and admired because of the Soviet coup otherwise they would have passed to history like any other opportunists politicians and without the Soviet Union and Leninism socialism would have taken a different path, the socialist party has spent more efforts and time explaining the distortions of Leninism than explaining what socialism really is.
Continue dealing with this man is a waste of time because he is not going to assimilate anything, he does not want to open the windows and doors of his minds to understand the socialist case, he is not willing to learn, he thinks that he is our teacher and that he can amuse himself with our argumentations and trying to ridicule the socialist party and many have tried to do that and they have left like little poppy with the tails between their legs and the teachers became students.
We had another teacher in this forum known as Leon Trotsky who called us champagne socialist because we do not vote and elect capitalist candidate, and we do not support the concept of the lesser evil, but history proved that we were correct because they are not essential difference between Trump and Biden and Trump was not the problem, the real problem is capitalism.
We had a Trumpist in this who was more open and more decent than many leftists and he presented his own arguments without any insults and without trying to denigrate the socialist party, honestly he called himself a nationalist and patriot and did not cover it with seudo socialist phraseology and he does not have any fanatic obsession with the CIA conspiracy theories. Our TS tried to make a differentiation between Nationalism and Patriotism and both are the same terms
There was another member of this forum, who presented his Leninist case, and he came looking for answers to his questions and he argued in a very honest and decent way and he was open to discuss new ideas and he accepted his own mistakes, and he accepted some of our argumentation
In reality the Moscow trial shows the weakness of Stalin regime and by executing all the members of the Central Committee he was able to solidify his grip on the state apparatus and the party itself, Leon Trotsky was a stone on his shoes and both were fighting for the same objectives, the best way to do that was by defaming him and destroying his collaborators which also collaborated with Lenin, and the best alternative was accusing them of treason. Stalin was a crook like all of them
Xi has declared “The historical task of the complete reunification of the motherland must be fulfilled, and will definitely be fulfilled”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58854081
He said he wanted to see peaceful unification occur under a “one country-two systems” policy, similar to that employed in Hong Kong.
With his suppression of dissent and repression of pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong, Xi doesn’t exactly provide the Taiwanese with much confidence in any similar arrangement. Xi could have shot himself in the foot with his intransigence to political opposition in Hong Kong.
But mention has already been made on this thread of the extensive commercial links that exist between the two Chinas.
Taishang is the name of this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taishang“At least, TrueScotsman, we are socialists”
You keep saying that but all I really see is you taking dumps on socialists. What you really are are reactionaries. You condemn all socialists. Why would any worker you are engaging with be interested in fighting for socialism if at the same time you condemn all socialist movements as bloody, totalitarian betrayals? They’re just gonna say, rather stick with the devil I know then, won’t they? You don’t make revolutionaries that way, you make liberals. Your party and your ideology are both abject failures.
“You are a bootlicking supporter of the billionaire-friendly Chinese capitalist regime.”
What is it with you and bootlicking? Far be it from me to kink shame anybody but keep it to the bedroom, would you?
“The only kind of revolution your way of thinking could ever countenance is a bourgeois-capitalist one.”
Sure, China, Cuba, the USSR, Vietnam, Laos…all bourgeois capitalist? Do you ever listen to yourself when you speak? You should try it sometime, it’s pretty funny.
“True, a socialist revolution may never materialise. That would be your loss as well as ours as workers, sneer at though you will.”
It certainly won’t materialise if anyone listens to you lot. Serious question; how many members does your little cult have?
“Your rhetorical question – how many revolutions have we spontaneously erupted lately? – only highlights how remote and opposed are your ideas to revolutionary socialism. It is not up to the SPGB to foment a socialist revolution. Such a revolution can only be made by the working class as a whole; it cannot be led or imposed from above.”
And how is that going to happen if there are no leaders? How is the capitalist class going to be overthrown? If your revolutionary moment is successful, how are you going to protect yourselves from the inevitable capitalist counter-reaction? You’ll need a military for that. Who’s going to lead it? No one? Serious questions. What are your answers.
My original answer to your challenge Alan failed to upload. I wrote to the moderator but it still hasn’t appeared. If it doesn’t show up in the next day or two I’ll rewrite it.
My original answer to your challenge Alan failed to upload. I wrote to the moderator but it still hasn’t appeared. If it doesn’t show up in the next day or two I’ll rewrite it.
There isn’t anything in the spam or bin. I did unspam one post 08/10/2021.
There was a bulk deletion of a batch of spam a few days ago, so this missing one may have inadvertantly been deleted.
Really? I sent a mail with the entire post I’d written that wouldn’t upload. It was concerning the Katyn incident.
How China solves the housing problem.
Very well, it looks like the post was lost. My main points from memory were that Furr has proven that the official narrative is seriously flawed. Archeological proof has emerged that people allegedly killed by the Soviets at specific times and at specific places were not killed at those places or at those times. Those victims could not have been killed by the Soviets. It was impossible. One of the lead Polish investigators into the massacres inserted language into the translations of Soviet documents to make it appear as if they were execution lists. Why do so if the evidence was so compelling? Almost all the victims were killed using German ammunition. Children were executed. The Soviets did not execute children. The bodies of victims were placed in the burial pits in a manner consistent with German death squads. The victims of the massacre were “discovered” by the Nazis just three months after the German loss at Stalingrad. How convenient for the Nazis. The pogrom just happened to be “discovered” after this major defeat when division in the allied camp would have been most advantageous to the Nazis. Finally, the entire narrative of the Katyn massacre emanated from Goebbels’ propaganda ministry. Goebbels was a proponent of the Big Lie and didn’t believe in telling the truth about anything.
‘And how is that going to happen if there are no leaders? How is the capitalist class going to be overthrown? If your revolutionary moment is successful, how are you going to protect yourselves from the inevitable capitalist counter-reaction? You’ll need a military for that. Who’s going to lead it? No one? Serious questions. What are your answers.’
How old Marx and Engels would have laughed at that. Sorry to keep emphasizing the point but this guy is the very paradigm of Leftist bourgeois thinking and exposes the fact that the Left are no closer to socialist consciousness than are the Right.
“With his suppression of dissent and repression of pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong”
Fascist thugs were indeed repressed as they should be. Or is it that you admire fascist hooligans who set people on fire, murder elderly street sweepers and beat women within inches of their lives for merely disagreeing with them?
“Xi doesn’t exactly provide the Taiwanese with much confidence in any similar arrangement.”
Taiwan is a province of China. As long as Washington’s quislings there don’t declare independence, there will be no military conflict.
“Xi could have shot himself in the foot with his intransigence to political opposition in Hong Kong.”
All states have national security laws. Every single one of them. Why should Hong Kong be any different?
“But mention has already been made on this thread of the extensive commercial links that exist between the two Chinas.”
False. There is only one China as recognised by the United Nations and almost every country on earth.
“How old Marx and Engels would have laughed at that. Sorry to keep emphasizing the point but this guy is the very paradigm of Leftist bourgeois thinking and exposes the fact that the Left are no closer to socialist consciousness than are the Right.”
So no answers to those very simple questions then? Come on, humor me? Or am I to presume you are that naive that you believe there will be no capitalist counter-reaction?
“How China solves the housing problem.”
As I understand it the buildings were supposed to house rural families that it was predicted would be migrating to the city. The migration never materialised. That along with the other problems mentioned in the article led to the decision to demolish them.
Really? I sent a mail with the entire post I’d written that wouldn’t upload. It was concerning the Katyn incident.
Sorry. I don’t doubt you. I didn’t receive it, so I think our (the Party’s) website email links are askew. If you have a copy then please send it to me at the email address I gave you privately, while I try to find out what the glitch was.
Update.
Sorry for any inconvenience you had. I managed to fix this glitch so any further messages from https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/contact-forum-admin/
will arrive in one of my many in trays.
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