Hong Kong
- This topic has 637 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
The best term would be Worldists because Internationalist means between nations, and we advocate for a society without nations and frontiers. That is the reason why we call ourselves the World Socialist Movement
Our resident bootlicker of Chinese state capitalism, TrueScotsman, has a touching naivete as to the motives that drive this imperialist power. It’s the same kind of wishy-washy arguments that supporters of the Gates Foundation or some other such charitable concern wheel out in support of their pet concern and TS could just as easily slip into the role of a supporter of the Gates Foundation as he is of Chinese imperialist policy.
Philanthrocapitalism has a hidden agenda and it comes with strings attached. Chinese capitalist aid to Africa and elsewhere is not fundamentally driven by a benevolent concern for the well-being of Africans; rather it is about capturing markets and securing access to resources in the long run. Only a gullible fool would think otherwise.
Here is quite a useful article I’ve randomly picked that gives the lie to TS’s pro-capitalist propaganda and there are plenty more articles from multiple sources that arrive at the same conclusion
Similar to the Alliance for Progress and the Peace Corps created by John F Kennedy, Charitable fronts of the US capitalists to expand and export capital in Latin America, Africa, and Asia
MS, this article is of interest that I found linked to at
https://www.pambazuka.org/print/98901#_edn49
“Imperialism is inscribed in the DNA of capitalism, and if China has embarked on the capitalist road, then it has also embarked on the imperialist road… Chinese state capitalism (for want of a better term) shows signs of developing a strategic challenge to Japanese, European and North American dominance in key industries… Class-conscious workers must maintain independence from both sides in this looming conflict … [by] opposing Chinese capitalist expansion and the Chinese Communist Party’s attempts to forge an alliance with reactionary capitalist regimes in Myanmar, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and other countries.”
As TS rates Vijay Prashad, he will find this essay interesting
“What we have rather than an inter-imperialist conflict is an inter-capitalist conflict, with the BRICS states—mainly China—pushing for market share across the world and pushing back a weakened Western economic bloc.”
https://mronline.org/2018/03/26/in-the-ruins-of-the-present/
There is a power-play going on to re-balance the respective influences of nations. TS wants us to choose sides.
As well Rosa Luxembourg’s book: “The Accumulation of capital” sweeps the floor with all the false arguments presented by the leftists, and Lenin’s false description of imperialism, and China’s false anti-imperialism. ( Also advocated by the Japanese capitalists, Mussolini and Hitler ) All capitalist nations ( small or large ) are potentially expansionist or imperialists. That summarizes everything. The ICC which a left communist group defined as the summation of all capitalists nations and power of the world, therefore, all capitalists countries are potentially imperialists or expansionists
https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1913/accumulation-capital/
Snowflake is a term popularized by Donald Trump and the US right-wingers, recalcitrants, reactionary and retrogrades.( original used by the Abolitionists within a different context ) It is as empty as the bourgeoisie ideology, and it is repeated by peoples who do not have any political foundation or class consciousness, or what the leftwingers (especially the Maoists ) call Lumpen
TS I would far sooner be a “purist snowflake”, as you call it, than a deluded bootlicker of Chinese state capitalism (or any other version of capitalism) with its imperialist ambitions to match those of any other imperialist power under global capitalism
China makes a list of American interference in Hong Kong with over 100 accusations. And I have no reason to think much of it isn’t true. We have readily conceded such things happen.
https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/web/wjbxw_673019/t1909400.shtml
TS has been claiming that the pro-democracy protests have been orchestrated and financed by CIA fronts. That it is a put-up job.
In this list, the most Chinese government has asserted has been that a number of prominent pro-democracy activists were guests of various US politicians and institutions.
These were well-publicised events as it was about giving the democracy campaign publicity and media exposure. Not any kind of secret plot.
What is missing from the charges listed by the Chinese government against the members of the pro-democracy movement is any mention of funding from the USA.
They say one should always follow the money trail. But there isn’t one to accuse the Hong Kong democracy groups of taking cash from the USA.
I think any reasonable person would conclude that if there was any evidence that would stand up that the protesters were financed by American interests, (other than perhaps travel, lodgings and meals to attend the before mentioned political meetings), the Chinese government would have presented that evidence.
There is no dispute that pro-democracy campaigners sought international support for their demands and appealed to foreign governments to apply diplomatic pressure.
But were they paid and bribed to protest? Were their organisation subsidised to subvert the Chinese authorities? It seems not.
They were acting sincerely and genuinely according to their individual consciences, not as puppets of outside foreign agents.
TS may insist they were mistaken and misguided but that is very different from smearing them as tools of a foreign power.
“What is missing from the charges listed by the Chinese government against the members of the pro-democracy movement is any mention of funding from the USA.”
You read Chinese now do you Alan?
Beijing is well aware of US financing of protest groups in China because Washington was doing it back in 2014.
“During the 2014 Occupy protests, Beijing made a big deal out of NED influence in the protests and the foreign influence they said it represented. The NED official, Greve, even told the U.S. government’s Voice of America outlet that “activists know the risks of working with NED partners” in Hong Kong, but do it anyway.”
“But were they paid and bribed to protest? Were their organisation subsidised to subvert the Chinese authorities? It seems not.”
Certainly CGTN seemed to think so. Alan would have to believe that the Chinese state broadcaster was well aware of CIA, sorry NED funding, but the Chinese state is not. If that’s so then I’ve got a bridge for sale and it’s going cheap.
“The NED is bankrolling Hong Kong “pro-democracy” and anti-Beijing groups such as the Solidarity Center (SC), the National Democratic Institute (NDI) and Hong Kong Human Rights Monitor to the tune of millions. In 2018 alone the NED reports giving 155,000 U.S. dollars to the SC and 200,000 U.S. dollars to the NDI.”
“The coalition cited by Hong Kong media, including the South China Morning Post and the Hong Kong Free Press, as organizers of the anti-extradition law demonstrations is called the Civil Human Rights Front. That organization’s website lists the NED-funded HKHRM, Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions, the Hong Kong Journalists Association, the Civic Party, the Labour Party, and the Democratic Party as members of the coalition.”
I see there is a talk on Chinese state capitalism tomorrow (sept 26th) on discord. Perhaps TS can chip in given his support for the regime
Got this in my intray
“A reminder of tomorrow’s Discord public meeting, specifically arranged
to suit time zones east of UK – Sunday 26 September 10am BST (GMT + 1).CLOSE UP WITH STATE CAPITALISM IN CHINA
Andy Thomas talks about his personal experience of doing business in
China, where tightening bureaucratic control is clashing with the
aspirations of the rising capitalist class.”The Chinese revolution was not basically a Leninist revolution, it was a Blanquist revolution and Lenin created the concept of the revolutionary war based on Blanquism,( One of Marx opponents ), and the struggles in the First International between Bakunin and Marx was not about Anarchism, it was between the Bakunin Conspiracy theory versus Marx political participation of the working class, and Marx’s view prevailed in that time. Lenin was also a proto Bakuninist
It is another evidence that Lenin was not a Marxist besides the conception of the Vanguard Party to lead which was borrowed from the Jacobins and Ferdinand Lasalle. ( Another Marx opponent ) Anybody who departs from the Russian revolution will end in wrong analysis and conclusions. The Vanguard Party is the Russian Machiavelli Prince, of the political manipulating of the workers from the top to the bottom, another negation of Marx view of the self-liberation of the world working class
The concept of revolutionary war pre-date before Vladimir Lenin and the Bolsheviks coup, and the concept of guerrillas fighter also predates Mao Tse Tung, and Ernesto Che Guevara, the Spanish and the Portuguese had a form of guerrillas warfare, the Haitian Jacobin had a form of guerrillas fighter and they were successful in overthrowing the french colonialist, A good read is CLR James book titled the Black Jacobins
Mao like Lenin did not have the whole support of the Chinese peasants, and most of the Chinese like the Russian peasants they just wanted land reform, they did not have any socialist education and they did not want socialism which is a prerequisite to establishing a genuinely socialist society, but both did not obtain any land reform, it was a revolution similar to the peasant revolution of Emiliano Zapatas in Mexico, but in Mexico, the peasants did obtain a land reform and a bourgeois democracy was established instead of the dictatorship of the vanguard party
The so-called socialist character of the Chinese revolution is a complete falsehood, it was just another anti agrarian revolution or a bourgeoise revolution that took place on an economically backward society with agricultural production, similar to all the revolutions and revolts that took place in Latin Americas, conducted by Simon Bolivar, Sucres, Toussaint Louverture, Albizus Campos, Fidel Castro, Hidalgo, Miranda, Marti, and several others nationalists. The US Economist Henry George also wrote about peasants land reforms, one dictator in the Caribbean initiated a huge land reform to pacify the peasants, and the Maoists and the Pro soviets supported him, and he had high approval within the peasants
As we have always said, the teachers who come to this forum, always have been demonstrated that they are students
The same charitable contributions made by the Russian and Chinese capitalists in Latin America with the main purpose of obtaining the approval of the peoples and to obtain favors from the government to be able to take the natural resources of the region which is rich in various minerals used in industry,
Such as beryllium, niobium (columbium), tantalum, thorium, lithium, rare-earth metals, and mica, are extracted in South America. Brazil, from the Northeast through Minas Gerais, and Argentina’s Sierra de Córdoba are important sources for these minerals.Coltan,Coper, Bauxite, Core Iron,
It has many minerals like Afghanistan. Both are competing with US Corporations who is also making charitable contributions and the Vaticans is doing the same things to obtain more religious customers from the Evangelicals and Anglicans
- The topic ‘Hong Kong’ is closed to new replies.